Reformed Pastor Shares Emotional Hug with the Pope

[Adonia]

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Did you not spend about 40 weeks in the waters of your mother"s womb. Notice the question of Nicodemus: "Can I enter my mother's womb a second time? This is about physical birth and spiritual birth. Being born of water has nothing to do with being born of The Spirit. Do not marvel, you must be born from above to see the kingdom of God. This has nothing to do with baptism or other acts of righteousness which we may or may not do.

"Without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sin." Baptism does not regenerate anything.

Now what?

Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Bro. James

That 40 weeks in the womb has nothing to do with being born of water (again) and the spirit. Good grief, how many times is baptism spoken of in the Scriptures? Plenty my brother! We are on the same page as regards the shedding of blood and being born of the Spirit, the only problem here is your inexplicable rejection of baptism. According to Jesus, both are required.

 

[Bro. James]

That 40 weeks in the womb has nothing to do with being born of water (again) and the spirit. Good grief, how many times is baptism spoken of in the Scriptures? Plenty my brother! We are on the same page as regards the shedding of blood and being born of the Spirit, the only problem here is your inexplicable rejection of baptism. According to Jesus, both are required.

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Inexplicable: an interesting word. How do we explain how the thief on the cross got to paradise without baptism. Jesus went to paradise that day with an unbaptized thief. Surely the answer is in the canon law. Someone's baptismal fount is seriously corrupted.

You are presenting a bizarre combination of the philosophy of Aristotle and the legalism of the Roman Empire--wandering somewhere in the wonderful world of Pontifex Maximus and Medici.

Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Bro. James

 

[Adonia]

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Inexplicable: an interesting word. How do we explain how the thief on the cross got to paradise without baptism. Jesus went to paradise that day with an unbaptized thief. Surely the answer is in the canon law. Someone's baptismal fount is seriously corrupted.



Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Bro. James

Are you serious? The thief on the cross was hanging next to God Incarnated. When Jesus (God Incarnated) turned to the thief and said he was to get to paradise that day, that was all that was needed. One word from God and that was that. Boom! Wham-O! You're in! The rest of us read the Scriptures and act accordingly.

Come Lord Jesus, and help our brother to see.

 

[Bro. James]

Are you serious? The thief on the cross was hanging next to God Incarnated. When Jesus (God Incarnated) turned to the thief and said he was to get to paradise that day, that was all that was needed. One word from God and that was that! The rest of us read the Scriptures and act accordingly.

Come Lord Jesus, and help our brother to see.

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Kind of like instant beatification. Does this fellow have a special day of the year on which he hears prayers?

Amen to reading the Scripture. What about the Catechism and proclamations of the Pope and the Holy Fathers?

Have you studied the Pontifex Maximus and pontiffs like Leo X and other Medicis? Leo X gets credit for selling indulgences and passes to get out of purgatory. Did the thief on the cross bypass purgatory?

Beware the wolves dressed like sheep.

Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Bro. James

 

[Adonia]

Kind of like instant beatification. Does this fellow have a special day of the year on which he hears prayers?

I haven't heard of one.

Amen to reading the Scripture. What about the Catechism and proclamations of the Pope and the Holy Fathers?

The Catechism? A very good book that explains the Church's theology in detail. As for proclamations by the Pope and the Holy Fathers they should be studied and believed because the Holy Spirit is behind them both.

Have you studied the Pontifex Maximus and pontiffs like Leo X and other Medicis? Leo X gets credit for selling indulgences and passes to get out of purgatory. Did the thief on the cross bypass purgatory?

Yes, the Church can indeed issue indulgences, though these days such a thing has fallen out of favor somewhat, but the whole idea comes from the "binding and loosing" power the church was given by Jesus himself and I am sure you know the appropriate scriptural passage.

As for the thief, since God Himself said he would go to paradise that day, he surely did. So in his case, there would have been no purging process as alluded to in the Holy Writ that the rest of us could be subject to.

So come Lord Jesus, don't forget to help our brother out.

 

[Yeshua1]

All I asked is for you to show us which verse is true. You don't want to because you hate the scriptures.

We don't preach works alone. We are just saying its not faith alone.

James 2
26For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

Body = Faith

Works = Spirit.


Practice what you preach. Dead body alone theology. Should pile up dead bodies = pile up faith, in front your church see if something happens.

Good works will accompany savign faith, not adding to salvation, but show off to others that we have now been saved!

 

[Yeshua1]

We know we will come up short on good works, it is Jesus sacrifice that really did it all, but then after that it comes down to the individual, but that is not the question. The question is: "Is having faith the only way to salvation"? And John 3:5 points this out perfectly. It says: "Jesus answered “Truly, truly, I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit".

Born of water - ummmmm, let's see, isn't that baptism? Why yes Wilber, that is correct! Baptism is the first part of what Jesus said and then it's the inner spiritual aspect - all flowing from His great sacrifice. Baptism is not a suggestion, it is a requirement.

Jesus said to believe on Him gives eternal life, John agreed with Him, do you?

 

[utilyan]

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How do you know if you have done enough good works? What if you come up short on good works?


Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Bro. James

James we do GOOD WORKS for free. We don't treat God like a Gold Digger or Prostitute who is only interested in his Money, Wealth, REWARDS--->salvation.

If doing Good Works required it, sign me up for hell.

If Jesus Christ requested something of you how much do you value his request? Could I trade you all of heaven for it? Could I threaten you will all of hell?



When given a command from Jesus the first thing you ask is...... wait one second Jesus let me put you on hold.......Is this going to give me salvation?......is this even going to give me 5$ or 100$?


Brother, Let me teach you to do the command of GOD for FREE.

How to be a fearless saint.


You ought to trust God to NEVER have to ask what is in it for me.


The good works is Love God and Love neighbor. Salvation? hah, You can get shot for doing these things. They can spit on you for doing this, They can torture you, They can nail you to the cross. While your Christian brethren be little you for putting loving GOD and neighbor as highest priority.

Yeah you can get salvation with them, with a beautiful crown of gems. Our crowns are thorns. We suffer with him with a glad heart.



The Good Works of Loving God is not going to give you salvation, maybe that's true, didn't care.

God loves me, I didn't give him a heaven or a earth or anything.

 

[Bro. James]

God's salvation is unconditional and totally unmerited. The salvation by the papal system is based on keeping sacraments, eating the flesh of Jesus, drinking the blood of Jesus and following an impossible system of rites and liturgy--just to get to purgatory. However indulgences can be granted to shorten the purging time. This is an impossible yoke of bondage.

The real gospel (good news) is that Jesus died to set us free from the bondage of sin and death even though there is nothing we can do to deserve it or earn it. It has nothing to do with vain worship per the commandments of men.

It is still the most important question in this life: Are we sure where we will spend eternity?

Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Bro. James

 

[Adonia]

God's salvation is unconditional and totally unmerited. The salvation by the papal system is based on keeping sacraments, eating the flesh of Jesus, drinking the blood of Jesus and following an impossible system of rites and liturgy--just to get to purgatory. However indulgences can be granted to shorten the purging time. This is an impossible yoke of bondage.


Bro. James

You are so wrong. It is not the papal system, but the Jesus system - everyone of those sacraments you disparage are listed in your Bible and were instituted by Jesus Christ himself. They are the means to help us live a holy life, all starting out with recognizing Jesus, his great sacrifice, and listening to his bride, the Holy Catholic Church.

 

[Adonia]

Jesus said to believe on Him gives eternal life, John agreed with Him, do you?

Of course I do. And I also believe that we are to listen to his holy church which he himself brought into being.

 

[utilyan]

God's salvation is unconditional and totally unmerited. The salvation by the papal system is based on keeping sacraments, eating the flesh of Jesus, drinking the blood of Jesus and following an impossible system of rites and liturgy--just to get to purgatory. However indulgences can be granted to shorten the purging time. This is an impossible yoke of bondage.

The real gospel (good news) is that Jesus died to set us free from the bondage of sin and death even though there is nothing we can do to deserve it or earn it. It has nothing to do with vain worship per the commandments of men.

It is still the most important question in this life: Are we sure where we will spend eternity?

Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Bro. James

"It is still the most important question in this life: Are we sure where we will spend eternity?"

That's the difference between our teaching.

"My important question is : What does Jesus want me to do?"

Your only worried about what is in it for you.

Take yourself out of the equation.

Your looking through selfish glasses, "what is in it for me?"

The Good works is LOVE GOD and LOVE NEIGHBOR.

The priority is GOD FIRST, My brothers and Sisters, that is every other soul.


What's it take to trade up the LOVE OF GOD as unnecessary? I've seen people do it for lesser things then "salvation".

You've made an idol of salvation.


1 Corinthians 13

1If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. 2If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3And if I give all my possessions to feed the poor, and if I surrender my body to be burned, but do not have love, it profits me nothing.

 

[Yeshua1]

"It is still the most important question in this life: Are we sure where we will spend eternity?"

That's the difference between our teaching.

"My important question is : What does Jesus want me to do?"

Your only worried about what is in it for you.

Take yourself out of the equation.

Your looking through selfish glasses, "what is in it for me?"

The Good works is LOVE GOD and LOVE NEIGHBOR.

The priority is GOD FIRST, My brothers and Sisters, that is every other soul.


What's it take to trade up the LOVE OF GOD as unnecessary? I've seen people do it for lesser things then "salvation".

You've made an idol of salvation.


1 Corinthians 13

1If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. 2If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3And if I give all my possessions to feed the poor, and if I surrender my body to be burned, but do not have love, it profits me nothing.

God requires us to place faith/trust into Jesus to save us from our sins, Period!

 

[Yeshua1]

You are so wrong. It is not the papal system, but the Jesus system - everyone of those sacraments you disparage are listed in your Bible and were instituted by Jesus Christ himself. They are the means to help us live a holy life, all starting out with recognizing Jesus, his great sacrifice, and listening to his bride, the Holy Catholic Church.

ONLY 2 ever were listed and given to us by Jesus, as there is NO sacrametal grace needed. as Jesus paid it all!

 

[utilyan]

God requires us to place faith/trust into Jesus to save us from our sins, Period!

Command is LOVE GOD, LOVE NEIGHBOR.

Faith Alone is not a commandment and even an error JAMES 2.

James 2

20But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?


He ain't talking about me, Yeshua, Who is this fool that thinks faith alone is useful?

 

[Yeshua1]

That will not deal with your sin issue though!

 

[utilyan]

That will not deal with your sin issue though!

Of course it does, under Love God.

1 john 3

23This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us. 24The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.


1 john 2

1My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; 2and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.
3By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him; 5but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him: 6the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.



1 John 2

22Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son. 23Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also. 24As for you, let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father.


If you don't Love God, then you deny Jesus is the Christ. Plain and simple.

 

[Yeshua1]

Of course it does, under Love God.

1 john 3

23This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us. 24The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.


1 john 2

1My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; 2and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.
3By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him; 5but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him: 6the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.



1 John 2

22Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son. 23Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also. 24As for you, let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father.


If you don't Love God, then you deny Jesus is the Christ. Plain and simple.

Still does not save you.....

 

[utilyan]

Still does not save you.....

God's command can spell certain doom, I'm still going to do it.

Not my will, but the Lord's be done.


You put value on whether it gives salvation or not. You don't care what God commands unless it pays you salvation. You say your not going to do what God says, because there is nothing in it for you and you wont get anything out of it.

I put value on whether God wants it done or not.

Because he commands it, it is more important.

 

[Jerome]

Update: Holland, Michigan churches will commemorate, but not celebrate, the Reformation:

http://www.sooeveningnews.com/news/20170129/letter-commemorating-reformation-in-order-to-grow-unity

area faith leaders met to discuss plans to commemorate the 500th anniversary of the Protestant Reformation

At the meeting, Pastor Dan Gillett gave a moving account of his December 2016 encounter with Pope Francis (Sentinel, Jan. 22), in which he expressed his commitment to commemorate the Reformation without celebrating it.

Attendees agreed: The Reformation needs to be commemorated in a way that avoids "celebrating" any perceived triumph of one faction of the church over another.

The local committee is planning a variety of events for October 2017....They will also give the community an opportunity to express repentance for the offenses we have committed against our separated brothers and sisters and to pray for healing of old wounds.