Reformed Theology vs. the Reformed Attitude

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Dont tell me that you agree that Calvinists are

judgmental
self-righteous
arrogant :laugh:


Oh & the other side NEVER projects any similar characteristics....please dont tell me your saying that!

 

[quantumfaith]

It appears to me that you guys are making a mountain out of mole hill to avoid discussing the content presented. I think its clear that mandym wasn't intending to mislead, and now you all know it was a quoted OP, so move on.

I also think its interesting that some of you are offended by what two reformed believers see as a problem within your ranks, especially since some of what they are recognizing is a text book example of what we too often experience here.

Preeeeeeeecisely

 

[Skandelon]

Dont tell me that you agree that Calvinists are

judgmental
self-righteous
arrogant :laugh:

No, not all of them, but its a clearly recognized trend among enough for many to notice it. As quoted before, Piper even recognizes this tendency when he said...

"I love the doctrines of grace with all my heart, and I think they are pride-shattering, humbling, and love-producing doctrines. But I think there is an attractiveness about them to some people, in large matter, because of their intellectual rigor. They are powerfully coherent doctrines, and certain kinds of minds are drawn to that. And those kinds of minds tend to be argumentative.

So the intellectual appeal of the system of Calvinism draws a certain kind of intellectual person, and that type of person doesn't tend to be the most warm, fuzzy, and tender. Therefore this type of person has a greater danger of being hostile, gruff, abrupt, insensitive or intellectualistic.

I'll just confess that. It's a sad and terrible thing that that's the case. Some of this type aren't even Christians, I think. You can embrace a system of theology and not even be born again."

- John Piper

Oh & the other side NEVER projects any similar characteristics....please dont tell me your saying that!

In never said that. In fact, I KNOW that I've conveyed all those sinful characteristics myself and am trying to allow Christ to sanctify that characteristic in me. I have a long way to go.

 

[preacher4truth]

It appears to me that you guys are making a mountain out of mole hill to avoid discussing the content presented.

Disagreed. Three brothers see differently and have addressed it and offered a little more than just a rebut of an alleged plagiarism. In addition, there is an incendary ideal presented in the OP. If such an one (OP) were presented as an Arminian/Free-will thread of the same nature things would suddenly appear differently to some.

I see no need to speak of arrogance, condescension &c perceived among a theological camp. It lends itself toward instigative dialogue.

i.e. It doesn't lend itself toward love and grace at all, thus avoidance of the content would be prudent, not pusillanimity.

- Peace

 

[mandym]

Disagreed. Three brothers see differently and have addressed it and offered a little more than just a rebut of an alleged plagiarism. In addition, there is an incendary ideal presented in the OP. If such an one (OP) were presented as an Arminian/Free-will thread of the same nature things would suddenly appear differently to some.

I see no need to speak of arrogance, condescension &c perceived among a theological camp. It lends itself toward instigative dialogue.

i.e. It doesn't lend itself toward love and grace at all, thus avoidance of the content would be prudent, not pusillanimity.

- Peace

There has been no plagerism. And such a claim says more about you than anyone else. What a shame.

 

[preacher4truth]

There has been no plagerism. And such a claim says more about you than anyone else. What a shame.

I said alleged, as in some alleged, or thought you allegedly had plagiarized. This is why persons addressed you within this thread, and, given your concern in the thread about how others may appear (judgmental, arrogant &c), and its topic, there is especially no need for personal innuendos towards others including myself. It is unnecessary.

- Peace

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

No, not all of them, but its a clearly recognized trend among enough for many to notice it. As quoted before, Piper even recognizes this tendency when he said...

In never said that. In fact, I KNOW that I've conveyed all those sinful characteristics myself and am trying to allow Christ to sanctify that characteristic in me. I have a long way to go.

The day Piper shows me his PhD in Human Psychology is the day I will start considering him credible in judging the character makeup of certain groups of people. As is, I differ with his opinion & always remember what opinions can be compared to & we all got one.

 

[Bob Alkire]

No, not all of them, but its a clearly recognized trend among enough for many to notice it. As quoted before, Piper even recognizes this tendency when he said...

In never said that. In fact, I KNOW that I've conveyed all those sinful characteristics myself and am trying to allow Christ to sanctify that characteristic in me. I have a long way to go.

I don't know about Piper, but I have heard Dr. Alan Cairns say many times many Calvinist lack the show of love and come across arrogant. Dr. Cairns is a Free Presbyterian pastor from Ireland who was a pastor of a Free Presbyterian church in Greenville, S.C. for years.

 

[Iconoclast]

I don't know about Piper, but I have heard Dr. Alan Cairns say many times many Calvinist lack the show of love and come across arrogant. Dr. Cairns is a Free Presbyterian pastor from Ireland who was a pastor of a Free Presbyterian church in Greenville, S.C. for years.

Alan Cairns is solid:thumbsup:

 

[Luke2427]

Again, I have posted article after article as has a great many others. Yet this one is pulled out of the bunch.

No. The rest of us use quote tags for... QUOTES.

If it is a short quote you can put it in quotation marks.

If it is a long quote the whole thing ought to be in quote tags that look like this:

No. The rest of us use quote tags for... QUOTES.

 

[mandym]

No. The rest of us use quote tags for... QUOTES.

If it is a short quote you can put it in quotation marks.

If it is a long quote the whole thing ought to be in quote tags that look like this:

I have already proven that to be false.

 

[J.D.]

Alan Cairns is solid:thumbsup:

Yes, and so is the Free Presbyterian denomination. When I was in New Jersey, I would have joined the one near Philadelphia if the traveling distance hadn't been so far.

 

[Tom Butler]

Okay, I accept Mandy's explanation that he did not intend to plagiarize and doesn't think he did. As far as I'm concerned, it's settled. Let's move on.

Now, regarding his OP. As I've posted before, I don't know a single Calvinist who is arrogant, etc. Can anyone cite some quotes which support that allegation? So far, all I've heard are unsupported assertions that they're out there.

 

[Jerome]

Here you go Tom. :wavey:

[New Calvinists] are vulnerable to becoming obnoxious and arrogant if we aren't careful.

With a little maturity, I came to realize that I was making a pest of myself, and that understanding of spiritual things is a gift from God, not because of our smarts.

I'm no less passionate, but I hope a whole lot less obnoxious and arrogant.

 

[Iconoclast]

Now, regarding his OP. As I've posted before, I don't know a single Calvinist who is arrogant, etc. Can anyone cite some quotes which support that allegation? So far, all I've heard are unsupported assertions that they're out there.

All believers can be arrogant,this is not a new revelation.The NT.cautions against this behavior as sin. We have all sinned in this way.
Some overtly,ie, you are a moron, a spiritual loser, let me introduce you to the bible, have you ever read your bible, etc.
Others do it with humble overtones......I only follow Jesus, my bible says,
no creed but Christ , I do not read books of men, you follow men I have the Holy Spirit,etc

Sin is at the root of all of it. God is not pleased with it,so neither should we be. Easier said than done, but we should be looking to move on to maturity.

 

[Bob Alkire]

Alan Cairns is solid:thumbsup:

You have that right, my friend.

 

[quantumfaith]

All believers can be arrogant,this is not a new revelation.The NT.cautions against this behavior as sin. We have all sinned in this way.
Some overtly,ie, you are a moron, a spiritual loser, let me introduce you to the bible, have you ever read your bible, etc.
Others do it with humble overtones......I only follow Jesus, my bible says,
no creed but Christ , I do not read books of men, you follow men I have the Holy Spirit,etc

Sin is at the root of all of it. God is not pleased with it,so neither should we be. Easier said than done, but we should be looking to move on to maturity.

:applause::applause::applause:

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

All believers can be arrogant,this is not a new revelation.The NT.cautions against this behavior as sin. We have all sinned in this way.
Some overtly,ie, you are a moron, a spiritual loser, let me introduce you to the bible, have you ever read your bible, etc.
Others do it with humble overtones......I only follow Jesus, my bible says,
no creed but Christ , I do not read books of men, you follow men I have the Holy Spirit,etc

Sin is at the root of all of it. God is not pleased with it,so neither should we be. Easier said than done, but we should be looking to move on to maturity.

How does the other side have the nerve to throw stones? Thats pretty nervy considering some of the actions I've see on this very board. All this guy thats quoted is doing is bad mouthing his own so he can obtain additional readership from other belief groups & thats fine by me. Let him renounce Calvinists but just be aware your burning bridges. Also who on the other side could really ever trust him? Thats his choice though. Plus defectors are common on both sides. 25 years ago I was a Catholic.

 

[Tom Butler]

Here you go Tom. :wavey:

Originally Posted by Tom Butler
[New Calvinists] are vulnerable to becoming obnoxious and arrogant if we aren't careful.

With a little maturity, I came to realize that I was making a pest of myself, and that understanding of spiritual things is a gift from God, not because of our smarts.

I'm no less passionate, but I hope a whole lot less obnoxious and arrogant.


Ow, that one stung. Chomp, chomp. Ooh, tastes a little bland.

I forgot that I did know one Calvinist who was arrogant and obnoxious.

Me.

But I got over it and am no longer arrogant or obnoxious.

I am, therefore, quite humble.

And proud of it.

 

[webdog]

Maybe I just looked at it wrong. I'm wondering, did anybody else think mandym was the author of the post, and realized it was a quote only after clicking the link. And would you have known mandym was not the author had you not clicked the link?

I'm just wondering if I'm the only one who drew that conclusion.

Not at all. I started off with "I read online..." and ended with the link.

The irony is the reformed folks on this board sided with you