Reformed Theology

[steaver]

I have a good Calvinist friend, an elder in my church, whom I respect and we have good back and forths on these issues involving TULIP. He doesn't believe crazy things like you see here from Calvinist on the BB. He made the comment that this reformed theology needs to be wiped out, and said he believed it was dying out. I never studied the differences among Calvinist, I just always debated TULIP and of course these things which come up such as we have seen over the past few months. I haven't had a chance to get together with him lately, or I would ask him about it.

So my question is, what is this reformed theology? Yeah I know I can look up some sort of written definition, but it is always more understandable if one who is actually involved in Calvinism can explain the differences.

 

[Thousand Hills]

So my question is, what is this reformed theology? Yeah I know I can look up some sort of written definition, but it is always more understandable if one who is actually involved in Calvinism can explain the differences.

Wow, just wow, the countless threads bashing calvinism that you start, the fact that you must spend a good three or four hours of your day here "debating" that you've got calvinism all figured out and how wrong it is, and you don't know what reformed theology is. Oh the irony. :laugh:

 

[Reformed]

I have a good Calvinist friend, an elder in my church, whom I respect and we have good back and forths on these issues involving TULIP. He doesn't believe crazy things like you see here from Calvinist on the BB. He made the comment that this reformed theology needs to be wiped out, and said he believed it was dying out. I never studied the differences among Calvinist, I just always debated TULIP and of course these things which come up such as we have seen over the past few months. I haven't had a chance to get together with him lately, or I would ask him about it.

So my question is, what is this reformed theology? Yeah I know I can look up some sort of written definition, but it is always more understandable if one who is actually involved in Calvinism can explain the differences.

Do you really want to know what Reformed Theology is, or is this just another in a long line of your posts that seek to do nothing more than to rail against Calvinists?

If you want to honestly understand Reformed Theology a good primer would be, "What is Reformed Theology?" Invest a few dollars, buy the book, and read it.

 

[Reformed]

Wow, just wow, the countless threads bashing calvinism that you start, the fact that you must spend a good three or four hours of your day here "debating" that you've got calvinism all figured out and how wrong it is, and you don't know what reformed theology is. Oh the irony. :laugh:

It is difficult to take steaver seriously.

 

[Thousand Hills]

It is difficult to take steaver seriously.

I would love for his elder friend at the Christian & Missionary Alliance church that he attends (if I remember correctly he's not Baptist) come to the Baptist Board and straighten out Icon, AA, Reformed, Con1, etc. Seems Steaver might not get it cause his elder friend doesn't either?

He doesn't believe crazy things like you see here from Calvinist on the BB. He made the comment that this reformed theology needs to be wiped out, and said he believed it was dying out.

 

[steaver]

Do you really want to know what Reformed Theology is, or is this just another in a long line of your posts that seek to do nothing more than to rail against Calvinists?

If you want to honestly understand Reformed Theology a good primer would be, "What is Reformed Theology?" Invest a few dollars, buy the book, and read it.

Is it different than original Calvinism? Reformed means Calvinism was reformed, no?

 

[steaver]

Wow, just wow, the countless threads bashing calvinism that you start, the fact that you must spend a good three or four hours of your day here "debating" that you've got calvinism all figured out and how wrong it is, and you don't know what reformed theology is. Oh the irony. :laugh:

Thousand Hills ?? Don't recall you participating in any of my threads. Are you one of those who sit on the bench?

 

[steaver]

I would love for his elder friend at the Christian & Missionary Alliance church that he attends (if I remember correctly he's not Baptist) come to the Baptist Board and straighten out Icon, AA, Reformed, Con1, etc. Seems Steaver might not get it cause his elder friend doesn't either?

So you do agree with Icon on No TULIP = No Sheep? And No Divine Enablement to believe Calvinism = No Sheep?

 

[Thousand Hills]

Is it different than original Calvinism? Reformed means Calvinism was reformed, no?

Reformed is a very patient guy, I'm sure he will take the time to explain the differences to you.

Right now I've got to go sign up on a diesel engine forum and debate some Cummings guys about how stupid they are, and how the Powerstroke is superior. Even though I know nothing about diesel engines and have never owned a truck with either.

 

[steaver]

Reformed is a very patient guy, I'm sure he will take the time to explain the differences to you.

Right now I've got to go sign up on a diesel engine forum and debate some Cummings guys about how stupid they are, and how the Powerstroke is superior. Even though I know nothing about diesel engines and have never owned a truck with either.

You do understand that my threads are exact quotes from Calvinist? If they can't represent Calvinism correctly, than who can?

 

[steaver]

I would love for his elder friend at the Christian & Missionary Alliance church that he attends (if I remember correctly he's not Baptist) come to the Baptist Board and straighten out Icon, AA, Reformed, Con1, etc. Seems Steaver might not get it cause his elder friend doesn't either?

And don't forget SBM also...Oh wait, a Baptist Calvinist is trying to straighten out that Baptist Calvinist.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

Baptist Calvinists focus on the Canons of Dort aka T.U.L.I.P. Reformed theology is the position of the Continental Reformed Churches (Dutch, German, and Swiss), the Presbyterians (the Scottish Reformed) and the Congregationalists (the English Reformed) The Puritans both of England and America are good representaives of the last. Their positions are represented in the Heidelburg and Belgic Confessions.

Beyond the formulations of Dort, Reformed theology:

• in its 17th and 18th century forms, had no problem with sacralism (the joining of Church and State). The Commonwealth of Massachusetts and the Sate of Connecticut did not disestablish the Congregationaiist Churches until the 1840s.
• holds infant baptism as a core belief. Look up Obediah Holmes, who Governor Witherspoon wanted to hang.
• is amillenial. It also sees the Church as fully taking Israel's place.

 

[Reformed]

Baptist Calvinists focus on the Canons of Dort aka T.U.L.I.P. Reformed theology is the position of the Continental Reformed Churches (Dutch, German, and Swiss), the Presbyterians (the Scottish Reformed) and the Congregationalists (the English Reformed) The Puritans both of England and America are good representaives of the last. Their positions are represented in the Heidelburg and Belgic Confessions.

Beyond the formulations of Dort, Reformed theology:

• in its 17th and 18th century forms, had no problem with sacralism (the joining of Church and State). The Commonwealth of Massachusetts and the Sate of Connecticut did not disestablish the Congregationaiist Churches until the 1840s.
• holds infant baptism as a core belief. Look up Obediah Holmes, who Governor Witherspoon wanted to hang.
• is amillenial. It also sees the Church as fully taking Israel's place.

Squire,

Reformed Theology is not so easily defined. Yes. Big "R" Reformed Theology is paedobaptistic. R.C. Sproul (see the book link in my first post in this thread) does a good job of presenting Reformed Theology as it is popularly manifested today. There are quite a few Reformed Theologians who are post millennial. Keith Mathison comes to mind. The point being that there are intramural squabbles within the Reformed camp, just as there are in the Arminian camp.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

If I wanted to do the research and write a book, I could. But this is Baptist Board which doesn't need 100,000 words. So, you get the short short version. I was concentrating on non-Baptist positions. Also, it took me some time to complete my post. In tat time, the thread went from the OP to (with this post) 14.

Squire,

Reformed Theology is not so easily defined. Yes. Big "R" Reformed Theology is paedobaptistic. R.C. Sproul (see the book link in my first post in this thread) does a good job of presenting Reformed Theology as it is popularly manifested today. There are a quite a few Reformed Theologians who are post millennial. Keith Mathison comes to mind. The point being that there are intramural squabbles within the Reformed camp, just as there are in the Arminian camp.

 

[The Archangel]

Also... The waters are muddied because there is a reformed soteriology that is often affirmed by those who don't fully embrace Reformed Theology (big "R").

Typically full-on "Reformed Theology" is expressed concomitantly with "Covenant Theology." Both of these closely-related (perhaps synonymous) expressions of a particular theological worldview stress the continuity between the testaments. Hence, most adherents to Reformed Theology are Paedo-baptists.

But, when the Second London Confession was written, it was essentially Westminster (which was Presbyterian) except that it was a baptist understanding of baptism, etc.

Now, several--including myself--are more of what is described as "New Covenant" in our theological outlook. New Covenant Theology is decidedly Calvinistic in soteriology, but it acknowledges the discontinuity between the testaments. It sees Israel and the Church as separate groups, but--as I describe it--heirs of the same promises.

The dispensationalists tend to describe the church as a parenthesis in redemptive history. Actually, Israel is the parenthesis simply because the Law does not and cannot save and Christ and the cross were never "plan B." Essentially, this is Paul's argument in Galatians.

Historically, baptist have been very Reformed in their theology, but to varying degrees. It is a recent hiccup in Baptist History that so many Baptists are Arminian-leaning and dispensational in their theology. It wasn't always so.... The so-called Calvinistic resurgence is not really a resurgence. Rather it is a return to the deeper roots of the Baptist movement, but I digress--another topic for another day.

Blessings,

The Archangel

 

[Squire Robertsson]

It's because of this muddying that going on about John Calvin and his sacralism isn't all that relevant to the Baptist view of "Calvinism".

Also... The waters are muddied because there is a reformed soteriology that is often affirmed by those who don't fully embrace Reformed Theology (big "R").
SNIP
Blessings,

The Archangel

 

[Thousand Hills]

Thousand Hills ?? Don't recall you participating in any of my threads. Are you one of those who sit on the bench?

I've been on injured reserve. :tongue3:

Seriously, I have a hard time following your threads. They are kind of like the lady at everybody's church who thinks she's the best singer in the world. She gets up to do special music, and its just awful. But everybody in the audience just sits there and smiles while tapping on their knee, someone will be bold enough to throw out a "Bless Her Lord" (which is code for help her hear how really bad she is). The crowd can't wait for the whole ordeal to end so they can get to Golden Corral.

 

[convicted1]

Reformed is a very patient guy, I'm sure he will take the time to explain the differences to you.

Right now I've got to go sign up on a diesel engine forum and debate some Cummings guys about how stupid they are, and how the Powerstroke is superior. Even though I know nothing about diesel engines and have never owned a truck with either.

OMG, that's a good'un.....lullz

 

[The Archangel]

It's because of this muddying that going on about John Calvin and his sacralism isn't all that relevant to the Baptist view of "Calvinism".

I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to say....

The Archangel

 

[Squire Robertsson]

Regretfull, I can't find the book at this late hour. But the word "sacralism" was developed by Leonard Verduin (an American Dutch Reformed scholar) and is used in his book The Reformers and their Stepchildren. He defined sacalism as the joining of state and religion. According to him, the concept predates Christianity.
During the Reformation, Lutherans, the variuos flavors of Reformed and the RCC were all sacralists. This carried over to Puritan New England. The idea being you could have a unified state without the people being unified in their religion.

I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to say....

The Archangel