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Refusing service
- Thread starter Judith
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thisnumbersdisconnected
New Member
That says it all! :thumbsup:
Anyone who would think that post is not the absolute truth needs to examine their heart. Probably their head, too.
Who are the real persecutors? Is forbidding gay marriage really discrimination? Is allowing two lezbos to have a romantic dinner really discrimination? Is forbidding public sodomy—e.g. two of the same sex kissing and holding hands as a married couple would do—really discrimination?
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say again, the chrsitians who support gay right agenda are unwittingly doing the work of the enemy among the churches to get that pervous lifestyle officially accepted as being 'a ok!"
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That says it all! :thumbsup:
Anyone who would think that post is not the absolute truth needs to examine their heart. Probably their head, too.
NONE are saying torture them, that none can be saved etc, but we ARE indeed saying that we as Christians CANNOT see their practices/behaviours as legit, and that we must oppose gay marriages and the gay agenda!
thisnumbersdisconnected
New Member
How can witnessing to them with the truth, in love, be seen as legitimizing anything? How does rejecting them from our businesses and our churches, when they come innocently, be seen as justifying anything? This is the kind of narrowmindedness that causes them to expect rejection before they even meet us.
Expecting that we as Christians would speak the truth in love is no where near "supporting the gay rights agenda" -- it is nothing more than what Christ would do. Using words that denigrate anyone, including homosexuals, or using their sexual proclivity as an excuse to reject them, is not being Christlike. It is being like the world, and we are called to be "not of the world."
What did the priest and the Levite do when they spotted the injured traveler? They crossed the road so they wouldn't have to be near him. But the Samaritan, despite the animosity between Samaria and Judea, nonetheless treated and bound the traveler's wounds, took him to an inn, paid for his recuperation, and said he would do more if what he had given didn't cover it.
When it comes to homosexual sin, are we the priests and Levites of the story, or are we Samaritans?
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Zaac
Well-Known Member
AMEN! And we, the church, are doing this en masse and seeing no reason for repentance.
Excellent example. Apparently some would have us be like the priests and Levites and not the Good Samaritan who remains the picture of Christ.
Should anyone listen to the person who is constantly having their posts edited for obscenities and perverse insults and accusations? You are a foul mouthed, insulting person who has not one clue what being a true believer is all about. The hate you spew is a constant reminder of that.
Personally, I think you are a troll account used to get folks stirred up and get debate going, I pray I am right. How you have not been banned is nothing short of amazing. Everyone knows what you meant by your bull manure statement.
From post #121
The topic here is "refusing service."
Perhaps we should refuse service to those with the sinful practice of posting with profanities.
1John 3:4 teaches that sin is a transgression of the law.
There is no sin greater than any other sin in God's eyes.
Check James 2:10 and Gal.3:10. The teaching of Gal.3:10 is, if one should break the law in one point during his entire lifetime (any law), he is cursed. Whether it is bestiality or a small lie, it is enough to curse you under the law. Sin is a transgression of the law.
In the Photographer's case he may have been justified, because he may not have wanted to photograph intimate poses between two individuals committing sin. Taking a picture of two men kissing each other would have been abhorrent to him, and perhaps other similar poses. He was justified.
If a person is working as a cashier at a grocery store, how does he or she know that the person is gay? Does she screen each one? Have them fill out a form?:smilewinkgrin:
Does she refuse service to those that have drinking problems? The obese and gluttonous? (fill out the form please)! All sinners must fill out the form and all sinners will be rejected. I can't see much business being transacted there!
Recently an airliner had to make an unnecessary landing and take two unruly passengers off the plane. They were committing lewd sexual acts openly in the plane--not homosexuals. Then the plane, after this delay could continue on. The heterosexual couple was refused service.
Sin is the problem. It doesn't matter what kind it is. All sin is an abomination to God.
Perhaps we should refuse service to those with the sinful practice of posting with profanities.
1John 3:4 teaches that sin is a transgression of the law.
There is no sin greater than any other sin in God's eyes.
Check James 2:10 and Gal.3:10. The teaching of Gal.3:10 is, if one should break the law in one point during his entire lifetime (any law), he is cursed. Whether it is bestiality or a small lie, it is enough to curse you under the law. Sin is a transgression of the law.
In the Photographer's case he may have been justified, because he may not have wanted to photograph intimate poses between two individuals committing sin. Taking a picture of two men kissing each other would have been abhorrent to him, and perhaps other similar poses. He was justified.
If a person is working as a cashier at a grocery store, how does he or she know that the person is gay? Does she screen each one? Have them fill out a form?:smilewinkgrin:
Does she refuse service to those that have drinking problems? The obese and gluttonous? (fill out the form please)! All sinners must fill out the form and all sinners will be rejected. I can't see much business being transacted there!
Recently an airliner had to make an unnecessary landing and take two unruly passengers off the plane. They were committing lewd sexual acts openly in the plane--not homosexuals. Then the plane, after this delay could continue on. The heterosexual couple was refused service.
Sin is the problem. It doesn't matter what kind it is. All sin is an abomination to God.
Is calling out active and practicing Homosexuality though NOT showing love of Christ towards them though?
Whar did paul in Romans one have to say concerning those whose desire was to promote and attempt to legitimize such behaviour?
was he Intolerent and lacking love of jesus towards them?
N
NE here ever stated cannot be friend with them, sell them. service them. witness to them. BUT NONE should be forced to agree withandcondone that chosen lifestyle!Do you know any other sin that is getting made legit among the church of today, that pastors support and condone such?
God does see and call certain sins andpractices as greater evil than others, as sexual sinning is labeled as being very bad, and especially homosexual acts!
My biggst concern inthis is that we will have pastors and us shut down as being bigots and homophobes for daring to call that what God does, and that we will be coming to a time where churches and the pulpit i the main see it as being good and acceptable for christians to do!
If I am running a secular business and I bake a wedding cake for a homosexual couple I do not have to do so in agreement with their lifestyle choice. Baking a cake is not an endorsement of their sin. It is not applauding what they are doing. Nor is is accepting their lifestyles. Yeshua you are confusing the inside of the church with the outside world. They are two different arenas and require two different approaches.
1 Corinthians 5:9-13 I wrote you in my letter not to associate with immoral people; (10) I did not at all mean with the immoral people of this world, or with the covetous and swindlers, or with idolaters, for then you would have to go out of the world. (11) But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler--not even to eat with such a one. (12) For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church? (13) But those who are outside, God judges. REMOVE THE WICKED MAN FROM AMONG YOURSELVES.NASB
1 Corinthians 5:9-13 I wrote you in my letter not to associate with immoral people; (10) I did not at all mean with the immoral people of this world, or with the covetous and swindlers, or with idolaters, for then you would have to go out of the world. (11) But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler--not even to eat with such a one. (12) For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church? (13) But those who are outside, God judges. REMOVE THE WICKED MAN FROM AMONG YOURSELVES.NASB
thisnumbersdisconnected
New Member
Depends how one does it. Westboro's nutballs call them out all the time. Are they showing love? That's an extreme example, but it is no more "loving" to refuse to serve them in a secular setting while directly citing their sin as the reason. How about the baker saying to the adulterer, "I'm sorry, the woman you want me to bake this cake for is not your wife, but your mistress, and I won't do it." If she's going to refuse to bake a cake for a "gay marriage" she should also screen her customers for adultery, fornication, and other sins like theft, forgery, assault and murder. Does she? Highly unlikely.
Straw man logical fallacy. No one here says the behavior is legitimate.
No. But he wasn't advocating rejecting them without love, either.
Another straw man fallacy. None of us said we should do that, either.N
No. But no one is supporting, condoning, or legitimizing homosexual behavior here, or in my church, at least, either.
Absolutely false!! There is no Scripture to support that ridiculous contention. There is plenty of misinterpreted Scripture that you and others attempt to use for that purpose, but there truly is none that actually does.
Just like all other sin, yes. But not worse.
Yet another straw man fallacy. What Westboro does is bigoted, homophobic, and wrong. But that's not what anyone here is saying other churches are doing. You're gross overreaction is totally out of line with what is being said. "Speak the truth in love." That's what Paul said. That's what we're saying. It is you and others who are hearing, "Bigot" and "Homophobe" when we are simply saying "speak the truth in love." Grow up!
Zaac
Well-Known Member
AMEN! It would be one thing to come out and say I'm endorsing these people and their gay marriage. But that isn't the case. You're providing a cake. Provide the cake and move on.
It is a shame that some folks are so dead set on winning a political argument that they seem to have no concern about winning souls.
You can't continue to reject people and tell them they are the worst of all sinners and then think because you say you're doing it out of love that they are gonna listen.
What do you mean "calling out..."?
I will "call out" lying as much as homosexuality and any other sin from the pulpit as sinful and evil. All sin must be "called out." We are not to be selective in our preaching against sin.
This is what Paul said:
Romans 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
IMO, backbiting happens frequently on this board, as does a display of pride.
Should we just go ahead and ban everyone?
Paul said to the church at Corinth, concerning one who had committed incest, to "delver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh."
I imagine that he would treat the homosexual the same way, especially if he was found in the church. The sin is condemned.
Hate the sin; love the sinner. Service is only sometimes refused when it outwardly condones the sin. Do you take part in Gay Pride parades, or do you refuse their services?N
Gluttony, covetousness, pride, etc. Look at your own heart. Are you sinless?
Or do you know evangelical pastors that condone immorality today, and I am speaking of conservative evangelical churches, not the modern or liberal churches of our day.
They are not accounted greater. All sin is a transgression against the law of God. There is no sin so small that God will overlook.
What do you think Christians will do?
What are you talking about?
Some zealots have bombed abortion clinics? What can be worse? Are you suggesting murder?
You MUST have messed the pasage where paul said that ALL other sins defile a man, but sexual sin is within a man, as when we partake doing them, jesus is right there with us particiating in a sense!
God has sytated that while all sin is evil, some are indded of a worse status than others, homosexuality one of them
And do you NOT see how many christians today, even pastors/churches have deemed this is now acceptable to God?
Would yoyu agree that it would be condonging that life style if a chrsitian was asked to partake of that 'ceremomy' for gay wedding, and dod business as usyual with them?
NEVER said keep them from going and doing business in my store/shop. but do I have the right to refuse conducting that outside 'on my time?"
You just seem stuck in this wrong view that we must love them by aceepting and condinging their acts and practices!
Who is doing that? But that ain't the issue. You are arguing for baking them "wedding" cakes and preserving memories of their sodomy in photos.
Again. Who is doing that?
What does that have to do with allowing them to engage in public sodomy? Same sex romance is perversion and sodomy, or do you say otherwise?
When one says he is a homosexual, what does that mean? That means he is aroused by, and has an apetite for sexual perversion. His identity is in his sodomy, and his freedom is in the libertine and public performance of sodomy. There is nothing else that it can mean. It's just as wrong, and should be just as detestable (especially for professing Christians like Zaac and disconnected) as one who says he is a pedophile. It's not like saying one is a man or that one is an Indian, and to equate the resistance to libertine sodomistic acts to racial discrimination, and to equate those who do resist with tyrants and oppressors is on the order of attributing the work of the Holy Spirit to the power of the Devil.
You tread on thin ice, and invoke the name of Christ to do so.
Zaac
Well-Known Member
Where on earth do you get this stuff? How do you suppose you witness to a lost person all the while telling him that his sin is worst than yours? The love of Christ is intertwined with a humility that considers the next person better than yourself.
Sadly you and a lot of folks in the church espouse the same kind of unBiblical poison as do the Westboro folks.
Your concern is about nothing. You want to act like the world and discriminate and marginalize these folks and then feign that you have some sort of noble cause for doing so. Feed that mess to someone else.
Your behavior about this issue continues to be atrocious. It's no wonder they are trying to legally get rights when you got folks who will treat them the way that you speak of.
Where would we be if Jesus decided HE wasn't going to the Cross for us because we continued to engage in our sin as though it were right?
The way you treat these folks shouldn't have anything to do with their sin.
One didn't have to receive the Mark on his forehead either. In other words, he didn't have to yield his mind, just yielding his hand was good nuff.
Zaac
Well-Known Member
WHO said that? We've been talking about providing services. You're the one who keeps talking about their acts and practices.
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