Regeneration, Faith / Faith, Regeneration

topic of discussion as noted by Cappie: "Total Depravity"

What does John 1:9 mean to a Calvinist who insists that human beings are so odious that God cannot convict the sinner before He regenerates them?

 

To this Calvinist, it means basically the same thing as Romans 1:18-22.

Jesus is God and man is without excuse to not worship God simply based on creation and the light that every man receives from Christ who is the Creator(Colossians 1:16).

Ken

 

St. John 1:9 'That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.'

John 1:9 according to R.G.V. Tasker, Professor of New Testament Exegesis at the University of London, offers this ideas. ‘The source of man's intellectual and spiritual perception, his conscience as well as his consciousness, is from the Divine Word. There is thus an affinity between the light than man possesses and the greater Light from which it comes. . . . For the truth is that the light with which the Word illuminates all men that are born, is a light shining into the darkness. Man, made originally in the Image of God, is a fallen creature; and, though the image remains, it is impaired.'

Raymond E. Brown expresses these views. ‘Some think that this does not mean the light of revelation, but the spotlight of judgment, the pitiless, all-revealing light is not to be avoided. If John the Baptist witness was for all men, the sphere of enlightenment from the real Light can scarcely be less.'

Matthew Henry, a Calvinist even says, ‘In crowning him with glory and honor, the honor of having noble powers and faculties of soul, excellent organs and parts of body, whereby he is allied to both worlds, capable of serving the interests of both worlds, and enjoying the happiness of both.'

Albert Barnes says, ‘' . . . this Light is not confined to the Jews, but is extended to all--Jews and Gentiles. It is provided for all, and offered to all. It is not affirmed that, at the time that John wrote, all were actually enlightened, but the word ‘lighteth' has the form of the future (tense). This is that Light so long expected and predicted, which as the result of its coming into the world, will ultimately enlighten all nations.'

I. Ray Berrian says, ‘The truth is that He is the Light of the world that ‘lighteth' and enlightens every person born of a woman. While depravity has touched every vestige of human beings, nevertheless, He reveals Himself through all that He has created by way of the handiwork of the world and universe. God leaves His inner reflected Light in the life of everyone born into the world. This, in and of itself, does not have the power to save a person from the Adamic nature or the multiplicity of sinful acts. God, notwithstanding, has and continues to actively woo men and women to Himself, often through our witness to the Gospel. There is never one second that He is not reaching out to people who see His Light and recognize His influence and calling of the Spirit.'

 

Calvinism does not claim that there is not some way in which the coming of Christ gave light to all men. What Calvinism does is explain why it is that "men love darkness rather than light", why it is that when that light shines on them and exposes their deeds for what they really are, they run from the light rather than to it.

 

That's not the reason they love darkness rather than light. They love darkness rather than light because they don't want the evilness of their deeds exposed. That's what keeps people away from the light. That's what keeps people in their sins.

 

Why is it that people whjo should KNOW that Total Depravity is an extensive, rather than intensive, doctrine, try to refute it on the basis of intensiveness?? Makes no sense.

 

No offense preacher but would you mind rephrasing your question in plain english... I like to talk about the beauties of the gospel in simple language. II Corinthians 11: 3 The simplicity that is in Christ!... Brother Glen

 

russell55,

I don't think you are even close to understanding John 1:9. If you find other sources it would be a help to you, me and the rest of the people who view our posts.

Apparently, what you are telling me is that God didn't do too good a job at trying to 'lighting' or enlightening sinners as to His Mighty Presence in their lives.

I agree with the Word that says, we are created in His Image even since the Fall plus He gives every sinner an awareness that they are responsible Him. How? Through looking at all of His creation--meaning the world and His universe for starts . . .

 

Ray I don't mind you posting but would you quit falling asleep!... Are you really asleep or just telling us I'm not listening I'm ignoring you?... "WAKE UP RAY"... Brother Glen

 

Man is. Remember that we sinned with Adam in the Garden of Eden. We can't run from that truth, can't hide from it as much as we may try.

Ken

 

If you really want an answer, go here for the link to listen - www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=35;t=000277

Ken

[ September 21, 2002, 12:48 PM: Message edited by: Ken Hamilton ]

 

And as soon as Ken becomes a member of God's privy counsel, I am sure he will fill us all in.....

 

That's a good one.

Actually, the answer is in Deuteronomy 7:7-8 but I don't think our opposition really want the answer. Methinks they don't want to give up their presuppositions and tradition.

Ken