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Regeneration happens at the same time as saving faith is given,
- Thread starter Iconoclast
- Start date
Yet another off topic ad hominem post, another attempt to change the subject.
We are chosen to be placed in Christ based on faith in the truth. We are made alive (regenerated) when we are together with Christ, Ephesians 2:5.
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
JL.Dagg says;
An inspired writer has said, "We love him, because he first loved us:"142 but these words do not teach, that our love to God originates in the conviction that we are the favorites of his love. The love of God towards us, operates both as an efficient, and as a motive.
1. As an efficient cause. "For his great love where with he loved us,143 when we were dead in sin, hath quickened us together with Christ." Here is an operation entirely distinct from that of mere motive. The dead body of Christ in the grave, was quickened by the Spirit; and a like power quickens the dead soul. "We believe according to the working of his mighty power, which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead."144 Here faith itself is ascribed to this divine operation. All this operation proceeds from God's great love wherewith he hath loved us. It is plain, therefore, that this love operates as an efficient cause, before it operates as a motive to holiness. It cannot operate as a motive without faith; and faith is produced by its efficient power. After this efficiency has quickened the dead soul, the love of God towards us then operates.
2. As a motive. The goodness of God leads to repentance, and every attribute and act of God has a tendency to call forth the love of the heart, when in the right state. Nothing so effectually melts the heart, as a view of God's great love towards us, while we were yet sinners: and of Christ's love in giving himself for us: but many a heart has felt this melting influence, without having in view the personal benefit to be received from this love. Our love to God does not produce a disregard to our own happiness, but it rises above the consideration of it. It is, therefore, not a modification of self-love.
manual of theology dagg-book 7 chapter 3
An inspired writer has said, "We love him, because he first loved us:"142 but these words do not teach, that our love to God originates in the conviction that we are the favorites of his love. The love of God towards us, operates both as an efficient, and as a motive.
1. As an efficient cause. "For his great love where with he loved us,143 when we were dead in sin, hath quickened us together with Christ." Here is an operation entirely distinct from that of mere motive. The dead body of Christ in the grave, was quickened by the Spirit; and a like power quickens the dead soul. "We believe according to the working of his mighty power, which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead."144 Here faith itself is ascribed to this divine operation. All this operation proceeds from God's great love wherewith he hath loved us. It is plain, therefore, that this love operates as an efficient cause, before it operates as a motive to holiness. It cannot operate as a motive without faith; and faith is produced by its efficient power. After this efficiency has quickened the dead soul, the love of God towards us then operates.
2. As a motive. The goodness of God leads to repentance, and every attribute and act of God has a tendency to call forth the love of the heart, when in the right state. Nothing so effectually melts the heart, as a view of God's great love towards us, while we were yet sinners: and of Christ's love in giving himself for us: but many a heart has felt this melting influence, without having in view the personal benefit to be received from this love. Our love to God does not produce a disregard to our own happiness, but it rises above the consideration of it. It is, therefore, not a modification of self-love.
manual of theology dagg-book 7 chapter 3
Another off topic post, another had hominem, another waving of the surrender flag.
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
LOL, the gift of faith is utter nonsense, and to "pretend" a verse that says one thing can be written to say something completely different is ludicrous.
Van,
Says no bible verse anywhere. Some would call this a novelty. Some would suggest a fantasy. When truth is ignored, error sweeps in faster than be imagined.
.
Says no bible verse anywhere. Some would call this a novelty. Some would suggest a fantasy. When truth is ignored, error sweeps in faster than be imagined.
No Bible verse says only the elect can be save.Or that election means you will be saved. Most of the Calvinist interpretation of election is false and not found in scripture. In fact there isn't even one Gentile ever called elect in the Bible. This is all fantasy doctrine. You should rename it for what it is. "fantasy"
MB
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
You will never get away from this one, throughout all Duration:
Romans 11:35 "Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?"
Pretend that, "who hath", your 'faith', "first given to him," 'God credits', "and it shall be recompensed unto him again?" 'as righteousness'.
[QUOTE="Iconoclast, post: 2543505, member: 10065"
Van said, "We are chosen to be placed in Christ based on faith in the truth"
Says no bible verse anywhere. Some would call this a novelty. Some would suggest a fantasy. When truth is ignored, error sweeps in faster than be imagined.[/QUOTE]
2Th 2:13
But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.
Sanctification by the Spirit refers to the Spirit setting the person apart in Christ.
Thus the false claim "says no bible verse anywhere" has once again been exposed.
Van said, "We are chosen to be placed in Christ based on faith in the truth"
Says no bible verse anywhere. Some would call this a novelty. Some would suggest a fantasy. When truth is ignored, error sweeps in faster than be imagined.[/QUOTE]
2Th 2:13
But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.
Sanctification by the Spirit refers to the Spirit setting the person apart in Christ.
Thus the false claim "says no bible verse anywhere" has once again been exposed.
Twaddle regurgitated is still twaddle.
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
Have you ever noticed
that when God Talks,
He Says things?
Romans 4:
3 "For what saith the scripture?
Abraham believed God,
and it was counted unto him
for righteousness.
4 "Now to him that worketh
is the reward not reckoned of grace,
but of debt.
5 "But to him that worketh not,
but believeth on him
that justifieth the ungodly,
his faith
is counted for righteousness.
6 "Even as David also describeth
the blessedness of the man,
unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
7 "Saying, Blessed are they
whose iniquities are forgiven,
and whose sins are covered.
8 "Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin."
...
Romans 11:35
"Or who hath first
given to him, (to God your 'faith')
and it shall be recompensed
unto him again?"
(credited by God, as righteousness).
"who",
your
"hath"
Debt, ungodly, iniquities, sin,
from Roman's 4, above,
your 'faith',
= Debt, ungodly, iniquities, sin.
"first given to him,"
your Debt, ungodly, iniquities, sin.
'God credits', =
Debt, ungodly, iniquities, sin(?)
"and it shall be
recompensed unto him again?"
'as righteousness'.
Never in Eternity.
So this is what you do?
MB
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
You were having some fit of some kind.
Maybe, an MB Fit.
2 SAMUEL 23:6-7
But the Sons of Belial ( SATAN ),
will be, all of them, as thorns thrust away:
because they cannot be taken with hands;
but the man that will touch them,
must be fenced with iron,
and the staff of a spear:
and they will be utterly burned with fire
in the same place."
2Th 2:13
But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.
Sanctification by the Spirit refers to the Spirit setting the person apart in Christ.
Thus the false claim "says no bible verse anywhere" has once again been exposed.[/QUOTE]
This verse does not say what you claim
Dave G
Well-Known Member
I'm not pretending, Van...it is a gift.
" For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:" ( Ephesians 2:8 ).
Anything that is given, is a gift.
For example:
" For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;" ( Philippians 1:29 ).
I believed on Christ because it was given to me to do so...
Just as it is given to me to suffer for His sake.
" But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out." ( John 6:36-37 ).
" But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.
65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father." ( John 6:64-65 ).
" Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father’s name, they bear witness of me.
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you." ( John 10:25-26 ).
" as thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him." ( John 17:2 ).
" And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed." ( Acts of the Apostles 13:48 ).
That above states that as many as were ordained to eternal life, believed.
Who, in the crowd that day, didn't believe?
Those that weren't ordained to eternal life.
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