Regeneration vs Conversion

[TCassidy]

You know Greek and the word tenses? Maybe @TCassidy can help.

2Pe 2:1 εγενοντο δε και ψευδοπροφηται εν τω λαω ως και εν υμιν εσονται ψευδοδιδασκαλοι οιτινες παρεισαξουσιν αιρεσεις απωλειας και τον αγορασαντα αυτους δεσποτην αρνουμενοι επαγοντες εαυτοις ταχινην απωλειαν

Damnable heresies - αἱρέσεις ἀπωλείας . “Heresies of destruction;” that is, heresies that result in destruction. The Greek word which is rendered “damnable,” is the same which in the close of the verse is rendered “destruction.” It is so rendered also in Matthew 7:13; Romans 9:22; Philippians 3:19; 2 Peter 3:16 - in all of which places it refers to the future loss of the soul in hell/the lake of fire.

 

[annsni]

2Pe 2:1 εγενοντο δε και ψευδοπροφηται εν τω λαω ως και εν υμιν εσονται ψευδοδιδασκαλοι οιτινες παρεισαξουσιν αιρεσεις απωλειας και τον αγορασαντα αυτους δεσποτην αρνουμενοι επαγοντες εαυτοις ταχινην απωλειαν

Damnable heresies - αἱρέσεις ἀπωλείας . “Heresies of destruction;” that is, heresies that result in destruction. The Greek word which is rendered “damnable,” is the same which in the close of the verse is rendered “destruction.” It is so rendered also in Matthew 7:13; Romans 9:22; Philippians 3:19; 2 Peter 3:16 - in all of which places it refers to the future loss of the soul in hell/the lake of fire.

So it is not describing the heresy as the idea of eternal damnation but that the heresies will lead to destruction?

 

[Benoni]

So it is not describing the heresy as the idea of eternal damnation but that the heresies will lead to destruction?

i does not say that. Believe what you want I see it as a heresy of damning the lost.

 

[Benoni]

You know Greek and the word tenses? Maybe @TCassidy can help.

I did not say I know Greek I said it was written in Greek. Why would I ask a so called Greek scholar who is so bias he cannot see beyond his bias. . I asked him to debate Matthew 25 and he is ignoring the request, because he knows I am correct about the baby goat.

 

[MennoSota]

I did not say I know Greek I said it was written in Greek. Why would I ask a so called Greek scholar who is so bias he cannot see beyond his bias. . I asked him to debate Matthew 25 and he is ignoring the request, because he knows I am correct about the baby goat.

Benoni, explain your baby goat theory for us.

 

[TCassidy]

So it is not describing the heresy as the idea of eternal damnation but that the heresies will lead to destruction?

Correct. But the application is that such heresies can lead to perdition.

 

[utilyan]

It's not my idea. It's what God says about sinners in the Bible.

I don't call God Hitler. You are the one claiming that I do. Your comment has zero biblical merit, yet you call God Hitler when God says the wages of sin is death.

That's a moronic statement from you, utilyan. Every created being would be worse than God at being God.
What is sad is that your God is unjust.

Put your dog on the computer and have him/her type in a reply. [emoji57]

What does this even mean? LOL

Hmmm...somehow you imagine I hate what God says about the wages of sin. Interesting. Do go on...

Interesting that you say "if." This means you consider it hypothetical.
The reality is that God is Sovereign. He has full authority to choose as He wills...regardless of our personal opinions. I will let God do as He wishes and praise Him.


Did all those whom God chose to grant more time on earth become adopted members of God's family? Can you extrapolate that from Jonah 3?

I assume you are quoting me.

God is merciful everyday in not sending sending humanity to hell, yet not all humanity is aware of His mercy. God's wrath will still fall in judgment because of our sin. Either Jesus blood pardons us by God's grace or it doesn't.
Does God make all humanity alive in Christ?

I get the fact that Moroni and you are placing yourselves above God.

What scripture do you have for this?

I understand a God of grace who chooses to pardon those whom He wills.

Who claimed God was selfish or evil? That's your claim about Reformed theology. Your claim is false.

Jesus already carried the cross. He calls me to follow and carry my cross as well.
God's unmerited favor towards me is wonderful. I can never thank Him enough.
Do you know God's unmerited favor in your own life, utilyan?

"What scripture do you have for this?"


Are you kidding me!?

You really do NOT KNOW GOD.

Mark 10

43“But it is not this way among you, but whoever wishes to become great among you shall be your servant; 44and whoever wishes to be first among you shall be slave of all.45“For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many.”




Philippians 2

5Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. 8Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.


Do you comprehend that at all? ^

Can you show us this attitude?

The attitude is that it wasn't a big deal that he was God but it was the principle that was more important then his own life.



God is the greatest servant of ALL. God is the most humble of all.

We look up to this, your problem is you presume submissive is a weakness.

Can't get more submissive then offering your own son. Nothing else can top that.

God's the greatest because he thinks your great enough to have his son die for you.



Hebrews 4
15For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin.

He sympathizes, he doesn't start on a high horse saying to himself well look at all this worthless trash.

 

[MennoSota]

"What scripture do you have for this?"


Are you kidding me!?

You really do NOT KNOW GOD.

Mark 10

43“But it is not this way among you, but whoever wishes to become great among you shall be your servant; 44and whoever wishes to be first among you shall be slave of all.45“For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many.”




Philippians 2

5Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. 8Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.


Do you comprehend that at all? ^

Can you show us this attitude?

The attitude is that it wasn't a big deal that he was God but it was the principle that was more important then his own life.



God is the greatest servant of ALL. God is the most humble of all.

We look up to this, your problem is you presume submissive is a weakness.

Can't get more submissive then offering your own son. Nothing else can top that.

God's the greatest because he thinks your great enough to have his son die for you.



Hebrews 4
15For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin.

He sympathizes, he doesn't start on a high horse saying to himself well look at all this worthless trash.

You've twisted the scriptures once again utilyan.
Notice in Mark Jesus didn't give his life for all. Certainly Jesus showed us how to serve, however, this is one role he plays.
As God Yeshua did lower himself to become man. However, is Jesus returning as a servant or a King? Will he ride a donkey or a white war horse? Upon His return He will slay those who have come to destroy His chosen people. The blood will flow and those who oppose Jesus will cower in caves and beg the rocks to fall on them.
As the resurrected King, He is Lord and He rules as Sovereign King. You and I bow before Him. We sing out "Holy, holy, holy is the Lamb that was slain."
Yes, he humbled himself so that he might purchase us from the power of sin, but He is now the Sovereign King who will justly judge.
You want Jesus to be your servant, but you don't want him as your Lord.

 

[utilyan]

You've twisted the scriptures once again utilyan.
Notice in Mark Jesus didn't give his life for all. Certainly Jesus showed us how to serve, however, this is one role he plays.
As God Yeshua did lower himself to become man. However, is Jesus returning as a servant or a King? Will he ride a donkey or a white war horse? Upon His return He will slay those who have come to destroy His chosen people. The blood will flow and those who oppose Jesus will cower in caves and beg the rocks to fall on them.
As the resurrected King, He is Lord and He rules as Sovereign King. You and I bow before Him. We sing out "Holy, holy, holy is the Lamb that was slain."
Yes, he humbled himself so that he might purchase us from the power of sin, but He is now the Sovereign King who will justly judge.
You want Jesus to be your servant, but you don't want him as your Lord.

You don't want Jesus to be your servant, ok.

You think when Jesus died on the cross, you were doing HIM as SERVICE? Your not the servant, not even close.

John 13
8Peter said to Him, “Never shall You wash my feet!” Jesus answered him, “If I do not wash you, you have no part with Me.”

What you got going on is something Jesus doesn't approve, FALSE HUMILITY, worst pride there is.

I can claim Jesus has been your only servant and that is precisely what makes him Lord.

You wouldn't see the king if he was right next to you. You already condemn the least of brethren.


Your problem here is you look at things like kindness, love, humility , meekness and you think to yourself these things belong to the weak.

Or this is just GOOD with its guard down. The virtues are powerful because they are commanded of God.


Our example how to live is Jesus Christ, I didn't see him going around kissing up and groveling for one man to justify him.

 

[MennoSota]

You don't want Jesus to be your servant, ok.

You think when Jesus died on the cross, you were doing HIM as SERVICE? Your not the servant, not even close.

John 13
8Peter said to Him, “Never shall You wash my feet!” Jesus answered him, “If I do not wash you, you have no part with Me.”

What you got going on is something Jesus doesn't approve, FALSE HUMILITY, worst pride there is.

I can claim Jesus has been your only servant and that is precisely what makes him Lord.

You wouldn't see the king if he was right next to you. You already condemn the least of brethren.


Your problem here is you look at things like kindness, love, humility , meekness and you think to yourself these things belong to the weak.

Or this is just GOOD with its guard down. The virtues are powerful because they are commanded of God.


Our example how to live is Jesus Christ, I didn't see him going around kissing up and groveling for one man to justify him.

Perfect example of you twisting words.

Jesus came to earth to show us and model servanthood. Jesus is in Heaven, not as a servant but as Sovereign King. He returns with all power and authority. He is ruler and will judge with righteous authority.

Why would you or I wish to keep Jesus from his position of Sovereign authority?

My hope is that you will one day know the fullness of Jesus authority rather than demand that he be subservient to you.

 

[sheeptender]

46And these (GOATS) shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous (goats are shown as the unrighteous, Not babes) into life eternal.

 

[sheeptender]

I

All Flesh will see the salvation of God. The word see in the greek means with wide open eyes at something remarkable. So how can they be damned? The word damned also means judged

I perceive you are in the bond of iniquity and the gall of bitterness. Repent therefore, if God will enable you, and be converted that thy dins may be forgiven thee.

 

[nodak]

Benoni--this has been an interesting thread to me. I've been working on family history, listening to oral history in our family, etc. Seems where my folks came from being Primitive Baptist Universalist was highly accepted into the fold of "good Baptist." Today it comes closer to getting you hung.

Don't have anything to contribute that amounts to much: with a copy of the Bible that usually translates sheol, gehenna, and hades rather than hell much of our eternal conscious torment teaching does fade. And even those PBU no-hellers believer in hell as a condition in this life, not the next. And that even evangelical universalists believe in hell--just that it is cleansing and finite. They will cite the eternal condemnation of Sodom and Gomorrah, then the where the scriptures speak of its restoration.

But as I said, the thread ties in with reading some historical stuff in the family from Tennessee and I enjoyed reading it.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

Six Hour Warning
This thread will be closed sometime after 12 AM Pacific.

 

[MennoSota]

To wrap up. God reconciles who He wills. This reconciliation accomplishes both a death to sin as our slave master and a new life in Christ whereby we are slaves to God (Romans 6 & 7). This union with Christ makes it such that though sin accuses us, yet in Christ there is no condemnation for us whom God has chosen.

Sent from my SM-G386T using Tapatalk

 

[utilyan]

Perfect example of you twisting words.

Jesus came to earth to show us and model servanthood. Jesus is in Heaven, not as a servant but as Sovereign King. He returns with all power and authority. He is ruler and will judge with righteous authority.

Why would you or I wish to keep Jesus from his position of Sovereign authority?

My hope is that you will one day know the fullness of Jesus authority rather than demand that he be subservient to you.

Well is it Jesus' hope that I am elect? Cause if its not then you sin against his will.

Sides I don't have free will If I demand anything from Jesus its like he demands it himself. And any love he gets without free will is just playing with himself. Just like your GI JOE toy loves you.




I think your doing a better job of keeping him from his authority because you can't recognize RESPONSIBLITY MAKES AUTHORITY.

See all this "returns with power and authority" ASSUMES He didn't have power and authority already.



God is the highest authority and priority.

You can't reconcile greatest servant because you still think his service is BAD.

Probably why you still preach a God that failed. He made sin, damns babies, forgives no one, saves no one, not a servant, is not humble, hates love.

A hot lump of mud can do a better job of being God then the Calvinist idea of God.

Another easy debate too.

 

[Rlee]

I do not believe man by his own will, can or has to, reach out and grasp, reach out and take, reach out and receive, the Spirit of God.

I believe God reaches out to one and indwells him with the Spirit of God.

Paul was going to Damascus for the purpose of imprisoning and or killing those of, the way. Jesus called him, showed him he was spiritually blind by blinding him and three days later indwelt him with the Spirit of Truth opining his mind and giving him his physical sight also.

Paul was ignorant in unbelief until, by the Spirit, he became of belief, of faith.

A thought.

What was Satan doing in the garden of God, Eden? Why did God put the man he had made in the presence of Satan? To test the man? Or for the following purpose. So that the Son of God could be manifested as a man for purpose? 1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Who was being tested the man of Satan? Did not, the man, do his job? Consider:
Hebrews 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through (the) death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

From whence cometh, the death, of the man, his children and Jesus who took part of the same?

I am carnal (of flesh and blood) [Lev 17:11] sold under sin.

For the purpose of redemption, foreordained before the foundation of the world. The means by which the devil and his works shall be destroyed.

Romans 16:20 And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.

Thank you percho, but I'm really trying to find out Benoni's position, not necessarily an answer for myself.

 

[Rlee]

Think that paul addressed that in Romans regarding the predestination of the elect of God!

Thank you Yeshua1, but I'm interested mainly in what Benoni's position is.

 

[MennoSota]

Well is it Jesus' hope that I am elect? Cause if its not then you sin against his will.

Sides I don't have free will If I demand anything from Jesus its like he demands it himself. And any love he gets without free will is just playing with himself. Just like your GI JOE toy loves you.




I think your doing a better job of keeping him from his authority because you can't recognize RESPONSIBLITY MAKES AUTHORITY.

See all this "returns with power and authority" ASSUMES He didn't have power and authority already.



God is the highest authority and priority.

You can't reconcile greatest servant because you still think his service is BAD.

Probably why you still preach a God that failed. He made sin, damns babies, forgives no one, saves no one, not a servant, is not humble, hates love.

A hot lump of mud can do a better job of being God then the Calvinist idea of God.

Another easy debate too.

Nice twist. Do you enjoy Chubby Checker?

Sent from my SM-G386T using Tapatalk

 

[annsni]

Thank you Yeshua1, but I'm interested mainly in what Benoni's position is.

He has been banned so he will not be able to answer your question.