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Featured Regeneration

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by glad4mercy, Oct 7, 2019.

  1. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    The same thing Romans 9:22-24 and all other passages having to do with believers...both Jews and Gentiles in Christ.
    Yes and no.
    See Kentucky's post above.

    Israel, as a nation has been blinded.
    But there is a remnant according to the election of grace ( Romans 11:6, Romans 11:7-8 ).
    Most of them, right now, are blinded to the truth, judiciously.
    But someday their blindness will be lifted, and those that remain until the coming of the Lord will see Him as He is, and mourn because of what they, as a nation have done to their God.

    So, right now there are elect Gentiles and elect Jews...later on, there will be many more Jews that believe on Christ at His coming...
    All "Israel" ( spiritual ) shall be saved, but not all Israel ( the physical nation ) shall be saved.

    God's people are a "nation" within a nation as pertaining to physical Israel, and "nations" within nations as pertaining to physical Gentiles.
    The spiritual are combined to make one "nation", or people, composed of remnants out of every tongue, tribe and nation ( Revelation 5:9, Revelation 7:9 ).

    Keep reading...His word really is very detailed and quite amazing!:)
     
  2. glad4mercy

    glad4mercy Active Member

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    a careful exegesis of Romans 11 and the whole Bible reveals a future restoration of Israel, though it will happen through a time of great trouble, pruning, and Divine intervention.
     
  3. glad4mercy

    glad4mercy Active Member

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    I agree with the post above. All Israel will be saved means the whole olive tree of Elect branches, but also there will be an awakening of national Israel, where they come to know Messiah

    all who reject Messiah will be cut off, and those remaining will be saved.
     
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  4. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    I would like to take this opportunity to state my view on Regeneration as a Spiritual Event that Takes Place on..... (?)...

    ..... an Unregenrate soul.

    Of the discussions on the Board, I do not see the word, 'sin', or 'lost', or 'unregenerated', on the Topic of Salvation, ever mentioned.

    You can look.

    So, the views of most others differ from what I understand.

    I see Jesus as having Died, because my sin was Placed on Him, and Jesus Made the Payment of His Perfect Righteousness to God, in my place.

    If God Hadn't Planned Salvation for my sin, and Jesus Hadn't Accomplished Salvation for me, and The Holy Spirit Hadn't Come inside me, to Give me a Spiritual Birth from Above, my Unregenrate soul would had never been Regenerated.

    I would have Gone to Hell and suffered, Forever.

    So, I believe Jesus Died, The Just for the unjust and that Jesus is The Savior of lost souls, from The Wrath of God.
     
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  5. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    Nah. That's not the Teaching of Scripture.

    Go Preach the Gospel to Jews, if you give one dang darn about them, in the least.

    When Jesus Returns, all oppurtunity to Repent and Believe, for all Human Beings, is gone.

    All Israel is not Israel and never will be.
     
  6. glad4mercy

    glad4mercy Active Member

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    What does Romans 11:11-12 say?

    What does Romans 11:25-32 say?
     
  7. glad4mercy

    glad4mercy Active Member

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    what does Romans 11:11-12 say?

    how about Romans 11:25-32?
     
  8. glad4mercy

    glad4mercy Active Member

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    Preach the Gospel to everyone
     
  9. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    This what Romans 11:11 & 12 says:

    11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall?

    since they have stumbled, and have thereby fallen into a forlorn and miserable condition, are they always to continue in it?

    God forbid:

    The end which God had in view, in suffering the Jews to stumble and fall, was not their destruction, but rather the salvation of the Gentiles;

    and especially not the destruction of "all" of them,

    blindness had only happened "in part" to them;

    for there was a remnant among them according to the election of grace, which should be saved;

    a chosen number, which obtained life and righteousness by Christ;

    but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles,

    That is, the Gospel; which is sometimes called salvation, the Gospel of our salvation, the word of "salvation";

    because it is a declaration of salvation by Christ, and is the power of God unto it;

    or a means made effectual by the power of God to convince persons, both of their need, and of the worth of it, and also a means of the application of it to them, by the Spirit of God:

    now this came to the Gentiles by the ministry of the apostles, according to the orders and command of Christ; and that through the fall of the Jews, their unbelief and rejection of the Messiah;

    for the Gospel was first preached to them, but they contradicting and blaspheming it, the apostles turned to the Gentiles, and preached it to them, as the Lord had commanded them:

    and thus they came to be acquainted with the doctrine of salvation by a crucified Christ, and to have it powerfully applied to their souls by the Spirit of God;

    when salvation might be said to "come" to them, in such sense as our Lord says it did to Zacchaeus and his house, ( Luke 19:9 )

    for to provoke them to jealousy.

    The fall of the Jews makes way for the Gospel among the Gentiles, and this having had its effects with them, will be a means of putting the Jews upon serious thoughts about, and a studious inquiry after, the true Messiah, and salvation by him;

    ... to provoke them to jealousy in a good sense, as will appear ... when being convinced of their sin in rejecting the Messiah, and observing the many advantages the Gentiles have received by embracing him, and they have lost by their contempt of him, will be provoked to an holy emulation of them, and be stirred up through their means to seek the Lord their God, and David their King; and thus things will wind about in Providence.

    Note: during the Inter-Mediatorial Age, between the First and Second Coming of Christ, or it will never happen, for the Jews, or anyone else.

    12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world,

    the fall of the Jews made less of them
    By "the world", from the next clause, is meant the Gentiles

    and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles;

    the few that did believe were the means of carrying and spreading the Gospel

    afterward the Jews behaving in a very indecent manner towards the apostles of Christ, they turned in a manner wholly to the Gentiles;

    and thus by the means of a few, a diminutive company, of which the Apostle Paul was one, the Gospel, the pearl of great price, treasure hid in a field, and put into earthen vessels, was carried into the Heathen world, and by it they were enriched.

    "how much more their fulness?"

    all Israel Will be Saved. (Gill)
     
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  10. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    Does this mean that anyone on Earth is ever going to tell The Nation of Israel to Repent and Believe The Gospel?
     
  11. glad4mercy

    glad4mercy Active Member

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    how much more WHOSE fulness? And don’t forget vs 25-32,
     
  12. glad4mercy

    glad4mercy Active Member

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    intersting you should reference Gill. Check his commentary on Romans 11:25-26. You can find it on the Bible hub website
     
  13. glad4mercy

    glad4mercy Active Member

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    nope! Where did you get that idea?
     
  14. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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  15. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    I wanted to see if Romans 11:11-12 was treated with the tyranny of common decency, for the sake of honestly.

    There was a question, there, about, 'who's fullness'?

    If that fork in the road is taken as 'the world', meaning 'the Gentiles', then looking at 25-26-32, is no problem.

    Gill says what he says there.

    Is there something you have to say?
     
  16. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    you're kidding? to joke?

    Has anyone?
     
  17. glad4mercy

    glad4mercy Active Member

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    clearly in verses 11-12, the ones who have fallen and whose future fulness brings even greater riches to the world is talking about physical Jews, not Gentiles

    I think you’ll find Gils commentary on Romans 11:25 and forward intersting. Check it out.
     
  18. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    not what it says.

    nothing remotely suggestive.

    not there.

    nothing to say about 25?
     
  19. glad4mercy

    glad4mercy Active Member

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    Verses 11-12 are not talking about Gentiles. That much is definite

    verse 25 says two things about the blindness of Israel.

    a. It is partial- not all encompassing, there is a remnant

    b. It is temporary. UNTIL the fulness of the Gentiles come in. When the complete number of elect Gentiles are brought in, then the blindness of natural Israel will be removed.

    so we have gotten way off track from the OP. I will start a new thread on Romans 11 and we can discuss this here. It will be up in a day or two.

    I will provide a full exegesis and you and anyone else who wants to can do the same. We’ll see who can walk through the text consistently.
     
  20. glad4mercy

    glad4mercy Active Member

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    you glossed over the question. Read the question again and answer

    Who are the words in CAPS referring to?

    now if the fall of THEM be the riches of the world...

    and the diminishing of THEM riches to the Gentiles...

    how much more THEIR fulness.

    the capitalized pronouns, what or who are they referring to?
     
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