Regeneration

[Reformed1689]

The lost world doesn’t care about the things that belong to God because there’s no true conviction.


Let’s see what God said about Cornelius:


Acts 10:1-4 KJV
[1] There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band, [2] A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway. [3] He saw in a vision evidently about the ninth hour of the day an angel of God coming in to him, and saying unto him, Cornelius. [4] And when he looked on him, he was afraid, and said, What is it, Lord? And he said unto him, Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God.


The Most High doesn’t just say that about anyone.

Yet he still had to have the Gospel sent to him.....hmmmm....

 

[Reformed1689]

I showed you in Scripture that he was regenerated. The natural man cannot be filled with the Holy Ghost. Sorry.

You ignored the argument. You tend to do that when you can't reconcile the argument with your viewpoint.

 

[PB Brother Tony]

So King Saul was regenerated, in your position.

Saul’s eternal salvation is ultimately between he and God but Saul was God’s choice to lead Israel (1 Samuel 9:15–16). Before Saul was made king, Samuel told him to visit some prophets (1 Samuel 10:5). At that time, Saul was told, “The Spirit of the Lord will come powerfully upon you, and you will prophesy with them; and you will be changed into a different person. . . . God is with you” (verses 6–7).

 

[Particular]

Saul’s eternal salvation is ultimately between he and God but Saul was God’s choice to lead Israel (1 Samuel 9:15–16). Before Saul was made king, Samuel told him to visit some prophets (1 Samuel 10:5). At that time, Saul was told, “The Spirit of the Lord will come powerfully upon you, and you will prophesy with them; and you will be changed into a different person. . . . God is with you” (verses 6–7).

Saul was Israel's choice as King. They got what they wanted.
I think it is a false correlation to say God's Spirit was upon a person, therefore they were regenerate. God's Spirit came upon a donkey, was the donkey regenerated?
Now, we know John was chosen by God and destined by God to lead the way for Christ. My point is that the passage you use in Luke 1 does not address John being regenerate while in the womb. We are not given John's childhood history as to when he came to faith.

 

[Jeremiah 6:16]

Another one is John The Baptist!

He’s regeneration took place in his mother’s womb.

Saul was Israel's choice as King. They got what they wanted.
I think it is a false correlation to say God's Spirit was upon a person, therefore they were regenerate. God's Spirit came upon a donkey, was the donkey regenerated?
Now, we know John was chosen by God and destined by God to lead the way for Christ. My point is that the passage you use in Luke 1 does not address John being regenerate while in the womb. We are not given John's childhood history as to when he came to faith.

I agree, who better to preach repentance than someone who I believe still had to repent before salvation. Again "the Bible doesn't speak of his childhood though."

 

[utilyan]

Early in my Christian walk, I understood being drawn to Jesus by the Father as the Grace of God preceding out faith, and then regeneration was the New Birth that logically, not temporally followed our faith. But I understood my faith and my regeration as having occurred similtaneously.

So hearing, drawn, followed by regeneration/faith.

Through listening to and reading people of different persuasions, including Calvinists, and MORE importantly, through growth in reading the scriptures, I came to understand regeneration better.

I now understand regeneration to be the monergistic act of God in which the spiritually dead believer is raised to life by the Power of God ALONE by the means or agency of faith through hearing the Word of God.

Is this what Calvinism teaches?

Secondly, how do Calvinists differentiate between "drawing" and "regeneration"?

I was on another message board recently, and I was attacked rigorously and abusively for my view on regeneration and preservation/perserverance by OSAS Arminians, who believed in preservation, but rejected perserverance of the saints, which I hold.

The best evidence is self explanatory by the first-hand experience of the christian converted.

I should be hearing testimonies of personal regeneration and drawing with obvious sign posts of what happens when.

I hear the testimonies they never follow the order of salvation as their theology claims and a lot of damage control even shoving the initial conversion in the closet to fit a philosophy not found in scripture.

Sincerity and Self-honesty wins here. Anyone sincerely converted would be jumping up and down on their testimony in the order of the events actually happened. When your mind goes from hating God to loving God would be a pin point event, even shocking, as well as the gnostic enlightenment of magically understanding all scriptures.

Instead I see people here trying to force their square peg experience into a round hole philosophy. Conformity becomes greater than the truth.

Just having to ask what order or what function God takes already gives me a bulls-eye of someone who is trying to tailor a false experience for the sake of conformity.

 

[Particular]

The best evidence is self explanatory by the first-hand experience of the christian converted.

I should be hearing testimonies of personal regeneration and drawing with obvious sign posts of what happens when.

I hear the testimonies they never follow the order of salvation as their theology claims and a lot of damage control even shoving the initial conversion in the closet to fit a philosophy not found in scripture.

Sincerity and Self-honesty wins here. Anyone sincerely converted would be jumping up and down on their testimony in the order of the events actually happened. When your mind goes from hating God to loving God would be a pin point event, even shocking, as well as the gnostic enlightenment of magically understanding all scriptures.

Instead I see people here trying to force their square peg experience into a round hole philosophy. Conformity becomes greater than the truth.

Just having to ask what order or what function God takes already gives me a bulls-eye of someone who is trying to tailor a false experience for the sake of conformity.

The story usually starts with..."MY story..."
We humans are by nature self-absorbed. This is why it is good to read scripture and see redemption from God's perspective. Seeing God's perspective changes the narrative.

 

[utilyan]

The story usually starts with..."MY story..."
We humans are by nature self-absorbed. This is why it is good to read scripture and see redemption from God's perspective. Seeing God's perspective changes the narrative.

Scripture says unless you are born again you can forget it.

The direct experience with GOD wins hands down. If its not with God, then it requires all the embellishment you can muster even from scripture. And you probably will change your narrative quite often to fit what people want to hear rather then the truth.

For a fact if God changes your heart its a done deal from the highest authority. If God directly speaks to me and tells me its A, B, C, it doesn't matter who says what or what is written where, you can insist x y z all you want.

What is from God is hands down from God. There isn't this guessing game your going through.

Your own conversion testimony lacks sincerity if you can't hold up front what God has directly done.

All I see is attempt to fit in with the conformity of philosophy. I don't see a personal relationship with Jesus.

 

[Reformed1689]

I hear the testimonies they never follow the order of salvation as their theology claims and a lot of damage control even shoving the initial conversion in the closet to fit a philosophy not found in scripture.

How do you figure that?

 

[Particular]

Scripture says unless you are born again you can forget it.

The direct experience with GOD wins hands down. If its not with God, then it requires all the embellishment you can muster even from scripture. And you probably will change your narrative quite often to fit what people want to hear rather then the truth.

For a fact if God changes your heart its a done deal from the highest authority. If God directly speaks to me and tells me its A, B, C, it doesn't matter who says what or what is written where, you can insist x y z all you want.

What is from God is hands down from God. There isn't this guessing game your going through.

Your own conversion testimony lacks sincerity if you can't hold up front what God has directly done.

All I see is attempt to fit in with the conformity of philosophy. I don't see a personal relationship with Jesus.

To be reborn, who has to cause that event to happen?

 

[Dave G]

I don't see a personal relationship with Jesus.

It's a bit difficult ( but not impossible ) to see the fruits of the Spirit over the Internet , especially when one is passionately discussing doctrine.
But there are some key indicators that can and do shine through:

" A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh." ( Luke 6:45 ).

So, over time a true believer's speech will match what's in their heart ( instead of what's in their flesh that within, dwells no good thing ( Romans 7:15-25 ), and their demeanor will more and more conform to the image that God has predestinated ( Romans 8:30 ) them to...the image of Jesus Christ.

For example, instead of a hatred and ridicule of people ( which stems from fleshly pride and conceit ), they will refrain their lips from guile, and address others in a respectful manner in meekness and sobriety...fully knowing that their salvation was of God, and not of themselves.

In other words, the fruits of the Spirit ( Galatians 5:22-23 ) will begin to shine through.
After all, they are a "work in progress" and are entirely dependent upon the Spirit to win their battle with the flesh ( Galatians 5:16-17 ).

That said, a personal relationship with the Most High is defined by what the He says will be the evidence of it... not what we think should make up "what a Christian is" by what we may have been taught from a pulpit, by someone who may or may not be "philosophizing" or " waxing romantically":

Faith ( Hebrews 11:1 ), the kind that endures to the end of one's life ( Matthew 24:13 ) instead of not falling away back into the world and its ways ( Matthew 13:18-23, 2 Peter 2:20-22 ).
Belief of His words ( John 8:43-47, John 10:27 ).
Chastisement ( Hebrews 12:1-17 )...God will not allow His beloved children to continue on in sin without getting their attention is some way and correcting them.
Continuing in His word ( John 8:31 ).
Growing in both grace and the knowledge of God ( 2 Peter 3:18 ).

One thing I've come to see over the course of 41+ years of being a sinner saved by grace, is that experiences are not what objectively govern a true believer...God's word and God's Spirit are ( Romans 8:9-17 ).
Feelings and subjective viewpoints are not to be trusted.

The salvation of one's soul is a very serious matter, and should never be taken lightly or with an attitude of " I can do anything I want, because I'm saved", or "I can treat people any old way I want, because I'm forgiven of my sins ".

I've been there, done that and worn out the T-shirt.



May God, in His mercy and grace, show you many things in His word, sir.