Regeneration

webdog:

A response to the things of God that are spiritual, i.e., faith shown by works. For such a thing, a man must be born again. Natural man has no part in such a thing.

As for your having your son jump off a house, aside from being foolish, such a thing is work, fleshly, and has nothing to do with the Spirit of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

By grace,
Bob Krajcik
Mansfield, Ohio </font>[/QUOTE]First, I realize the ACT OF JUMPING off the house is a "work". My question was: is my son's FAITH IN ME TO CATCH HIM a work also (thanks for sharing with me that jumping off a house is foolish...I never would have known)?

So you are saying that a RESPONSE is a work? Under what pretense? When Jesus threw Saul off his horse and said "Paul, why are you persecuting Me" his verbal reply back was a work? Ephesians 2:8 explicitly shows a defining difference between what faith is and what works are. You ARE saved by faith, and NOT works, how are these the same thing? You're really stretching it, Bob.

 

I did not and do not admit faith is a work. You missed my point as you did Jesus' point in John 6.

Jesus used the word "bread" but He explained that He was talking about coming to Him (6:35). He used the word "water" but He explained that He was talking about believing on Him (6:35). He used the word "work" also for believing on Him whom he hath sent.

Not unless you believe He was talking about real bread and real water then you are forced to also concede that He is not talking about real work.

If you aren't actually eating that bread (or His flesh) and you aren't actually drinking that water (or His blood) then you aren't actually working that work.

I agree that there is no room for reconciliation.

If Jacob (have I loved) is illustrating the election of the saved then can I assume that Esau (whom I hated) is illustrating the election of the lost. this is the kind of fatalism that destroys the truthfulness of God asking people to believe Him. It seriously makes

Man would most definitely refuse God if it weren't for one little detail that you are leaving out. The influence of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit draws men to Himself. He makes it possible for an unregenerate enemy of God to be reconciled to Himself. He chooses (elects) to do that through the operation of faith. For by grace are ye saved THROUGH faith (which is not a work). It is not faith THROUGH salvation.

With faith regeneration is God's stated response, accomplished in man by the operation of God. Along with regeneration, conversion, righteousness, sanctification, and eternal life.

You say that faith is through salvation and the verse says that salvation is through faith. both cannot be right.

Only the lost CAN come to Christ. The saved are already there.

What happens in between those two things. I acknowledge the total depravity of man before salvation and that salvation is a complete turnkey operation but I must receive the key, I must receive Him. He offers the key. It is my point that He makes offer of His own free will. I believe that He offers because the Bible says that he offers. I do not believe that He offers because that it what I want it to say or that I have studied for a PhD, or that I have reached a conclusion based on the many books I have read and been persuaded with convoluted reasoning. I believe it is a real offer because He says that it is. (John 1:12)