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Regimentation

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
(Rom 6:16 RSV) Do you not know that if you yield yourselves to any one as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness?
(Rom 6:17 RSV) But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed,
(Rom 6:18 RSV) and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness.
(Rom 6:19 RSV) I am speaking in human terms, because of your natural limitations. For just as you once yielded your members to impurity and to greater and greater iniquity, so now yield your members to righteousness for sanctification.
(Rom 6:20 RSV) When you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness.
(Rom 6:21 RSV) But then what return did you get from the things of which you are now ashamed? The end of those things is death.
(Rom 6:22 RSV) But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the return you get is sanctification and its end, eternal life.
(Rom 6:23 RSV) For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

(Rom 6:17 RSV) "...you who were once slaves of sin...". Sounds like a fact - no consideration of "free will".

(Rom 6:18 RSV) "...having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness.".

History clearly teaches that a slave, regardless of their master, has free will! Really - not so!:mad:

Your logic has a major flaw.

Rom 6:16 Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness NASB

If the slave has no free will that means they can only do what their master tells them to do. Those words indicate that the person has a choice.

Rom 6:17 "...though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart ..."
Here again we see the ability of choice.

If they have the ability to turn away from a sin then they have the ability to turn to God.

Even the verse you use to prove your case actually proves you are wrong in your view.
Rom 6:17 But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed,

Either the person chose freely to trust in God or he was forced to trust in God.
But the wording does not support the view that God forced them so it had to be from a free will choice.

Before they responded to the gospel they had been slaves to sin, but they wholeheartedly (lit., “out from hearts,” thus inwardly and genuinely, not merely externally) obeyed. BKC

Lets look at what you said : "History clearly teaches that a slave, regardless of their master, has free will! Really - not so!"

So you must hold to calvinist determinism. But scripture does not support that view. Man is held responsible for the choices he makes and that requires a free will.

Where are we told in scripture that man has no free will?

By your words a slave to God cannot sin so do you hold to sinless perfection?
 

Wesley Briggman

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Where are we told in scripture that man has no free will?
Where are we told in scripture that man has a free will?

Mans will is limited by the law he is subject to. Under physical laws man can express his will in many ways. He might chose to jump off a bridge, but due to the law of gravity, if he changes his mind in mid-decent, he cannot restore himself to his previous position prior to jumping.

Likewise, a physically dead man cannot restore himself to physical life.

A spiritually dead man (natural man), cannot will himself spiritual life and is not subject to the will of God.

(Eph 2:1 KJV) And you [hath he quickened], who were dead in trespasses and sins;
(Eph 2:5 KJV) Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

God, the Holy Spirit, in effect, breathed spiritual life into my spiritually dead soul - He quickened ME! Praise God! I had no part in it.

Not only did He quicken me, but He also:
(2Co 1:22 KJV) Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.
(Eph 1:13 KJV) In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
(Eph 4:30 KJV) And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

The KJV translates Strong's G4972 in the following manner: seal (22x), set to (one's) seal (1x), stop (1x), seal up (1x), set a seal (1x), variations of 'seal' (1x).
to set a seal upon, mark with a seal, to seal
for security: from Satan
since things sealed up are concealed (as the contents of a letter), to hide, keep in silence, keep secret
in order to mark a person or a thing
to set a mark upon by the impress of a seal or a stamp
angels are said to be sealed by God
in order to prove, confirm, or attest a thing
to confirm authenticate, place beyond doubt
of a written document
to prove one's testimony to a person that he is what he professes to be


(Rom 8:33 KJV) Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? [It is] God that justifieth.
(Rom 9:11 KJV) (For [the children] being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)
(Col 3:12 KJV) Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;
(1Th 1:4 KJV) Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.

Did you elect yourself to be a child of God?

(Pro 14:12 KJV) There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof [are] the ways of death.
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Did you ever wonder why it is harder for a rich person to enter the kingdom than for some other person, if everyone is irresistibly compelled to believe? Food for thought....

Matthew 19:23 Then Jesus said to His disciples, “Assuredly, I say to you that it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 And again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” [NKJV]​

My answer is that if you have little or no treasure in our physical world, it is not difficult to give that small amount up when seeking the riches of heaven, but if you have great or highly valued treasure in our physical world, such as someone with wealth, position, or power, then to give those treasures up is difficult.

In Matthew 13 soil #2 wanted to enter the kingdom but was unwilling to undergo hardship. Soil #3 wanted to enter the kingdom but was unwilling to give up his worldly treasures.

As everyone can see, those that deny it is more difficult for a wealthy person to enter heaven than for anyone else, are silent as to the reason God's word says it is. This indicates regimentation, they are only equipped to deny God's word, but not to offer a rational basis for claiming God does not mean what He says.

The regimentation crowd says humans have no capacity to seek God or trust in Christ unless enabled by Irresistible Grace.
Those, like myself, who claim lost, unregenerate humans (men of flesh, people in their natural, non-indwelt state) have the limited ability to understand some spiritual things, spiritual milk but not spiritual solid food. This view is taught in 1 Corinthians 3:1-3. This limited spiritual ability is further taught by Luke 13:24 because many lost people seek the narrow door, but do not find it.

At the end of the day, all the regimentation crowd will post is "taint so."
 
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