Remaining Roman Catholic

[Martin Marprelate]

And here we go with the Catholic Church and the anti-Christ charge one again! You folks are like a broken record. Kerplunk, kerplunk, kerplunk - the same old spin. Come on , can't you come up with something new to entertain us?

Adonia,
With respect, you have chosen to come onto a Baptist website and try to push Roman Catholicism down our throats. Surely you must expect some push-back.
It has never occurred to me to go onto a Roman Catholic website and push Reformed or Protestant theology, but if I did I would expect to get blasted.

You are welcome on the forum, but if you find it too hot for you, the way out is just over yonder.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

:
Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy have a long tradition of teaching contemplation or nondual consciousness. But its systematic teaching was primarily held in the Eastern “Greek” church; the Western “Latin” church was more extroverted and aligned with empires.

EWF, have you ever looked at the Puritan tradition of Biblical meditation? Try here:
https://www.restoringthecore.com/wp-content/restored/BeekeMeditation.pdf To contemplate Christ, not as a crucifix or icon, but as He is revealed in the Scriptures, is a very precious thing.

I visited St. Petersburg back in 2012 and it was the 200th anniversary of napolean's retreat from Moscow. I heard Tchaikovsky's 1812 Overture played by a great orchestra, which was good, but I saw a long queue of people lining up to kiss a picture of some bloke with a beard that someone had pronounced to be Jesus. It was really depressing. Russian 'Orthodoxy' is being pushed by Putin as an adjunct to his corrupt nationalism, while Biblical Christianity is coming under increasing threat in Russia.

Read John Owen's The Glory of Christ published by Banner of Truth. That will do your soul more good than any amount of Roman Catholic 'contemplation.'

 

[Adonia]

Adonia,
With respect, you have chosen to come onto a Baptist website and try to push Roman Catholicism down our throats. Surely you must expect some push-back.
It has never occurred to me to go onto a Roman Catholic website and push Reformed or Protestant theology, but if I did I would expect to get blasted.

You are welcome on the forum, but if you find it too hot for you, the way out is just over yonder.

Oh no, you have got me all wrong. I don't try to push my faith tradition down anyone's throats, I defend the Holy Catholic Faith - that's all. Not one time have I ever demanded that someone convert to the Latin Rite, what I do is simply point out that above all, the only thing you folks have is a different interpretation of the Holy Scriptures that incidentally didn't come about until some 1600 years or so down the line. Memo to Martin: There was no 1st Baptist Church of Jerusalem in the year 70 no matter how many times you claim there was.

Now, my response that was quoted had to do with the regular charge that we are the anti-Christ people, that's all. What, I can't respond to the charge? And no, it's not too "hot" a place here for me to handle, you just simply don't like the push back. As for you going to a Catholic site, why not? Go there and make your case for your faith tradition and see what happens. For the longest time Catholics were not allowed here on BB and all you got were voices of the same choir with no viewpoint from the other side. I know you think you are right, but there truly is another way concerning the Christian experience.

 

[Salty]

What power specifically are you referring to?

will give you a very good example:
I was on visitation one night. Knocked on one door. As I mentioned I was from Faith Baptist - the lady informed me that her priest had told them they are not allowed to talk religioun with Protestants. (then I said, well this is your lucky day- We are not protestants.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

will give you a very good example:
I was on visitation one night. Knocked on one door. As I mentioned I was from Faith Baptist - the lady informed me that her priest had told them they are not allowed to talk religioun with Protestants. (then I said, well this is your lucky day- We are not protestants.

That musta confused them ..... what she meant was not to talk to non- Catholics.
i dont know if the viewpoint is still prevelant but mom always taught us kids that the RCC is & was the "One True Religion," so why have dialog with anyone not a Catholic?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Adonia,
With respect, you have chosen to come onto a Baptist website and try to push Roman Catholicism down our throats. Surely you must expect some push-back.
It has never occurred to me to go onto a Roman Catholic website and push Reformed or Protestant theology, but if I did I would expect to get blasted.

You are welcome on the forum, but if you find it too hot for you, the way out is just over yonder.

The guy is from New Jersey USA, right. So we don't say "Yonder" ....rather we say "dont let door hit ya on the way out".....or "and the horse ya rode in here on." When you say "Yall" for you all ..... or "Yonder" for over there, it sounds like an old 'Beverly Hillbillies TV show.

 

[Walter]

Adonia,
With respect, you have chosen to come onto a Baptist website and try to push Roman Catholicism down our throats. Surely you must expect some push-back.
It has never occurred to me to go onto a Roman Catholic website and push Reformed or Protestant theology, but if I did I would expect to get blasted.

You are welcome on the forum, but if you find it too hot for you, the way out is just over yonder.

This a forum for Christians of denominations of various flavors. Not just Baptist. You would be most welcome to go on catholic.com and post away. You might try Phatmas too. All forums are open for discussion by any one who posts respectfully.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Thats because most Baptist & Protestants today dont like the RCC. You are the target for criticism even though if you dig down far enough you will often find corruption & disgrace in their own church system. Irregardless, if one seeks to understand religion as a whole it is set up by flawed people so yea your going to get that element of corruption each time, its not avoidable.

But we hear many bad things about the RCC so I would venture to ask, Whats so good about them? Ya know what, dont even answer me ..... but the next time one of these hecklers confronts you with conserns like satans running the RCC, It would be nice to see one of you actually defend the RCC.

I won't defend evil actions by men. However, the Church is not defined by these evil men but by Jesus Christ who breathed on the Apostles saying receive the Holy Spirit. There is much which is good about the Catholic Church. One only has to study to see those things that are good. Unfortunately, the Devil has worked hard at disparaging the Church with evil men throughout history. We see signs of this in the New Testament. Paul writes to the Corinthians " It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that is not found even among pagans; for a man is living with his father’s wife. 2 And you are arrogant! Should you not rather have mourned, so that he who has done this would have been removed from among you?" - 1 Cor 5:1

 

[steaver]

It has never occurred to me to go onto a Roman Catholic website and push Reformed or Protestant theology, but if I did I would expect to get blasted.

They won't allow it. You would be banned in a heartbeat. The BB is graceful enough to allow them to stay here. I believe it is bc the Baptist are very well versed and see having Catholics here as a way to expose all of the RCC's many flaws, even antichrist doctrines. If you want to know what a organization REALLY teaches you must ask their followers bc most often what they write down on paper as "official" and what they actually preach are two opposite things. We see this with the Catholics here on the subject of salvation, we have like 4-5 different Catholics responding with 4-5 different answers, and when challenged with followup questions they cannot answer.

 

[Walter]

They won't allow it. You would be banned in a heartbeat. The BB is graceful enough to allow them to stay here. I believe it is bc the Baptist are very well versed and see having Catholics here as a way to expose all of the RCC's many flaws, even antichrist doctrines. If you want to know what a organization REALLY teaches you must ask their followers bc most often what they write down on paper as "official" and what they actually preach are two opposite things. We see this with the Catholics here on the subject of salvation, we have like 4-5 different Catholics responding with 4-5 different answers, and when challenged with followup questions they cannot answer.

You simply don't know what you're talking about. There are many non-Catholics posting on Catholic boards and have been doing so for years, without being banned.

 

[steaver]

And here we go with the Catholic Church and the anti-Christ charge one again! You folks are like a broken record. Kerplunk, kerplunk, kerplunk - the same old spin. Come on , can't you come up with something new to entertain us?

How do you think the Antichrist is going to be accepted by the entire world as a man of God, a man of Peace? Are you suggesting the Pope will saying anything negative about a man who comes in the name of God, loving God and loving neighbor? Will the Pope bother to ask the man if Jesus Christ is his Lord and Savior? Or will he assume the man is saved just bc he says he loves God and loves others and performs many wonderful works? I believe we have a Catholic here who would praise the man just bc he says he loves God and loves others, doesn't matter if he accepts Jesus Christ as the Son of God or not.

 

[steaver]

You simply don't know what you're talking about. There are many non-catholics posting on Catholic boards and have been doing so for years without being banned.

Maybe it has changed. twenty years ago when I went on and began questioning their doctrines with scripture I was promptly banned. After trying a few I quit trying.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Oh no, you have got me all wrong. I don't try to push my faith tradition down anyone's throats,

I think maybe you should read your own posts. However, that is beside the point. As I said, you and your RC friends are welcome here, but no one forced you to come. All I am saying is, don't bleat. If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.

There was no 1st Baptist Church of Jerusalem in the year 70 no matter how many times you claim there was.

There was no church of any sort in the Jerusalem of AD 70 because that was the year the place was destroyed. However, you may be assured that in the 1st Century churches, there were no popes, cardinals and all the other nonsense, no priests (save that every Christian is a priest, no baptism of infants and no images. It sounds a bit Baptist to me.

As for you going to a Catholic site, why not? Go there and make your case for your faith tradition and see what happens.

I have no intention of doing so. It would seem to me to be the height of bad manners.

For the longest time Catholics were not allowed here on BB and all you got were voices of the same choir with no viewpoint from the other side.

They've been here ever since I have, which is quite a few years. But in general, one goes on a 'Baptist Board' to discuss with other Baptists. The clue is in the name.

I know you think you are right, but there truly is another way concerning the Christian experience.

And here is the difference between us writ large, There is no mention of a 'Christian experience' found in Scripture. I want to know Christ, not some ersatz experience, and to know Him better day by day.

 

[Reformed]

There is much which is good about the Catholic Church. One only has to study to see those things that are good.

The Roman Catholic Church may have some beneficial aspects. Catholic hospitals and the Catholic Charities organization here in the United States are two things that come to mind. But for all the good things they do for the common welfare, Roman Catholic doctrine gets the Gospel wrong, and that is all that matters. When Roman Catholics proselytize on places like the Baptist Board, they never miss the opportunity to bring up the patristic age and claim Roman Catholicism was early Christianity. Their inference is that because of the ancient nature of their faith, it is the one true faith that all Christians should be bound to. One could make the argument that the early Roman church was a mixture of truth and error up until the early 5th century when it finally took a nose dive south into idolatry while adding aspects of paganism. It departed from the final authority of scripture to a cocktail of scripture, tradition, and ex-cathedra. It placed a mediator between God and man (the priesthood) and gave power to dead men and women in clear violation of scripture. It venerated the mother of Jesus, which is rank heresy. It forced celibacy on its priests, which is again a violation of scripture. It introduced the false teachings of prevenient grace and purgatory, beliefs that offer false hope and instill false fear. Both are meant to enslave its followers.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Ya know, here is a guy I liked & would listen to him, not always agree but he spoke with authority & with a sencethat Catholism had worth towards the Kingdom.

He was flawed though & they eventually removed him from the priesthood. Could you image, a real flesh & blood man being removed while the likes of McCarrick ...... ?!?

1st. allow these men some normalcy...IE let them marry.
2nd Get ridof all (practicing) homosexuals in the RCC. There is no place for them to co-exist in a Christian run church.

The Roman Catholic Church may have some beneficial aspects. Catholic hospitals and the Catholic Charities organization here in the United States are two things that come to mind. But for all the good things they do for the common welfare, Roman Catholic doctrine gets the Gospel wrong, and that is all that matters. When Roman Catholics proselytize on places like the Baptist Board, they never miss the opportunity to bring up the patristic age and claim Roman Catholicism was early Christianity. Their inference is that because of the ancient nature of their faith, it is the one true faith that all Christians should be bound to. One could make the argument that the early Roman church was a mixture of truth and error up until the early 5th century when it finally took a nose dive south into idolatry while adding aspects of paganism. It departed from the final authority of scripture to a cocktail of scripture, tradition, and ex-cathedra. It placed a mediator between God and man (the priesthood) and gave power to dead men and women in clear violation of scripture. It venerated the mother of Jesus, which is rank heresy. It forced celibacy on its priests, which is again a violation of scripture. It introduced the false teachings of prevenient grace and purgatory, beliefs that offer false hope and instill false fear. Both are meant to enslave its followers.

There is a lot you are saying here. First I want to make something very clear. I am not proselytizing on the Baptist site. I'm sharing my views on doctrine, scriptures, and sometimes modern events. Yes I am Catholic. But I keep out of the Baptist only area's of this board. Keep in mind there are many Baptist who post on Catholic boards as well. The Truth is years ago, I was a Baptist. I attended a Southern Baptist Church. I went on mission trips. However, as I studied the scriptures and history I independently became more in line with Catholic Teaching. In order to stem some of that I joined this message board and discussed things but eventually, came into full communion with the Catholic Church. At that time I asked one of the Moderators to list me as Catholic. I personally think there is a lot of misconceptions about the Catholic Church and really just try to clarify those things. As far as all doctrinal issues you mentioned, I think that each point can have its own thread. I know I'm not going to change your mind. But at least I can put my views for you to ponder and disregard at your own leisure.

 

[Reformed]

I personally think there is a lot of misconceptions about the Catholic Church and really just try to clarify those things.

There are not that many misconceptions. Roman Catholic doctrine departs from scripture on each thing I mentioned in my previous post. The administrators of the Baptist Board allow you to post here but do not expect me to remain silent about Roman Catholicism. God was gracious in delivering me from the error of Rome. I do not go out of my way to pick a fight over Roman Catholicism, but I am not going to shy away from one when the topic comes up.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

The Roman Catholic Church may have some beneficial aspects. Catholic hospitals and the Catholic Charities organization here in the United States are two things that come to mind. But for all the good things they do for the common welfare, Roman Catholic doctrine gets the Gospel wrong, and that is all that matters. When Roman Catholics proselytize on places like the Baptist Board, they never miss the opportunity to bring up the patristic age and claim Roman Catholicism was early Christianity. Their inference is that because of the ancient nature of their faith, it is the one true faith that all Christians should be bound to. One could make the argument that the early Roman church was a mixture of truth and error up until the early 5th century when it finally took a nose dive south into idolatry while adding aspects of paganism. It departed from the final authority of scripture to a cocktail of scripture, tradition, and ex-cathedra. It placed a mediator between God and man (the priesthood) and gave power to dead men and women in clear violation of scripture. It venerated the mother of Jesus, which is rank heresy. It forced celibacy on its priests, which is again a violation of scripture. It introduced the false teachings of prevenient grace and purgatory, beliefs that offer false hope and instill false fear. Both are meant to enslave its followers.

Which leads ex catholics like yourself to go searching for an authentic church. When you yourself discovered the necessity to find a "Gospel Church" were you regenerated by the HS or did you merely go church shopping? Clearly what I am looking for is your motivation for leaving the RCC & finding a substitute. I believe you said you bounced around a bit (both with churches & with Doctrines).

Then finally, what made you decide on Reformed (Baptist)Theology as apposed to Presbyterian Covenantal Theology ?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

There is a lot you are saying here. First I want to make something very clear. I am not proselytizing on the Baptist site. I'm sharing my views on doctrine, scriptures, and sometimes modern events. Yes I am Catholic. But I keep out of the Baptist only area's of this board. Keep in mind there are many Baptist who post on Catholic boards as well. The Truth is years ago, I was a Baptist. I attended a Southern Baptist Church. I went on mission trips. However, as I studied the scriptures and history I independently became more in line with Catholic Teaching. In order to stem some of that I joined this message board and discussed things but eventually, came into full communion with the Catholic Church. At that time I asked one of the Moderators to list me as Catholic. I personally think there is a lot of misconceptions about the Catholic Church and really just try to clarify those things. As far as all doctrinal issues you mentioned, I think that each point can have its own thread. I know I'm not going to change your mind. But at least I can put my views for you to ponder and disregard at your own leisure.

Brothers, this thread was posted in other Christian Denominations in order to allow others besides Baptists to contribute. I personally want to know their viewpoints .....(A View from a point) and what motivates folks to make varied Faith decisions. As for myself, I am closest to a Primitive Baptist stance but I dont try to influence, If you want to know just ask. Also I believe that dissent, even conflict, is necessary, is indeed desirable components in discussion. Without dissent and conflict there can be no understanding and without understanding, there are only wrong decisions. I for one have no problem with eliciting dissent and then synthesing dissenting views into an understanding, and in the end, into consensus.

 

[Yeshua1]

Brothers, this thread was posted in other Christian Denominations in order to allow others besides Baptists to contribute. I personally want to know their viewpoints .....(A View from a point) and what motivates folks to make varied Faith decisions. As for myself, I am closest to a Primitive Baptist stance but I dont try to influence, If you want to know just ask. Also I believe that dissent, even conflict, is necessary, is indeed desirable components in discussion. Without dissent and conflict there can be no understanding and without understanding, there are only wrong decisions. I for one have no problem with eliciting dissent and then synthesing dissenting views into an understanding, and in the end, into consensus.

Do you see yoursel as being a Hyper calvinist then?

 

[atpollard]

All the stuff now happening constitutes but a minority of those in the Church which is why the windows and doors need to be opened wide for a thorough airing and we the faithful are not afraid in the least to see this happen. When some pedophilia or homosexuality happens in other Christian denominations little is made of it, but oh boy, when it happens in the Catholic faith tradition it's Katy bar the door for all the hubbub that is generated amongst the press and other Christians.

I can only speak for myself. My critical disagreement with Catholicism was the veneration of "traditions" and "Mary" to the point of appearing (to an outsider contemplating membership in the RCC) to supersede Scripture and Jesus Christ. The Catholic Church vehemently denies it with their words, but their actions openly contradict their words on this matter. Few prayers are offered to Jesus and many prayers are offered to Mary. However, these are reasons why I should not be a Catholic and not reasons why others should not be a Catholic.

To state that it is a "minority of the Church" is to understate the case when Pennsylvania indicts 300 priests for molestation in their state alone. While that is probably a technical "minority" (less than 50%) it is an unacceptably large number. Other areas, both surrounding states and European countries, are reporting similar large "minorities". Setting aside the number, the issue that disturbs me is the impunity with which this evil is done. The need to protect the church from scandal has resulted in a conspiracy to protect evil at the expense of the most vulnerable of the RCC flock. This is unacceptable.

For the record, Church Leadership protecting sinning clergy (including pedophiles) is not unique to the RCC and is just as unacceptable in a Baptist (or any other Protestant) Church. The RCC has just institutionalized the coverup (only the Vatican can investigate charges and remove a priest, a Bishop who notifies the police has violated his oath to protect the RCC from scandal and can be dismissed for it).

Looking back to the video in the OP, the call of Catholic Laity to protest and demand action is appropriate. So too is the analogy to Abraham Lincoln and Slavery ... what should a Christian do if South had won and the Government decided that all states would be slave states? Would it then be time to flee from what America had become?

What should a Roman Catholic Christian do if the RCC decides to continue to protect pedophile priests from the law and simply refuses to reform? (This is not the first call for the church to do something, and shuffling pedophiles around to avoid prosecution is not the something that people had in mind). As a Baptist, I could leave one independent Baptist church that had abandoned its mandate from Christ and join another. This is a question that YOU (Roman Catholics) may be forced to answer for yourselves.