All Indians back to Siberia and Mongolia. Keep the Americas pristine.
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Reparations
- Thread starter agedman
- Start date
All Indians back to Siberia and Mongolia. Keep the Americas pristine.
Gladly!
I dont believe we came from either place. Newer archaeological evidence confirms we were here thousands of years earlier than previously thought. ( Thats another discussion.)
Ha!ha! I continue to get flyers that say that some Chinese dance company predates Noah's flood, which was 4300 years ago. The Chinese dance company says that they go back 5000 years. I guess 2 miles of water over the surface of the earth didn't kill everybody. As for the Indians, they are linked by DNA and language family not to mention ethnic characteristics. They crossed from Asia into Alaska and then travelled down to the tip of South America.
This thread once again presents a discussion of an obvious fallacy. My great, great, great, great, great, great, great grandfather undoubtedly shot native peoples at Tippecanoe. They certainly mortally wounded him. But should we hold the children accountable for the sins of the father? What does the bible say.
And as a new creation is Christ, all of my sins are forgiven.
Some unstudied voices say "visiting the iniquities" to the fourth Generation supports holding children accountable. Not what the phrase means. The consequence of sin can adversely affect others in subsequent Generations. But the solution is not to fan class or race warfare, rather it is to forgive and remember no more forever.
Pay no attention to false doctrine from false teachers.
Deuteronomy 24:16 ESV
“Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.
Exodus 34:7 ESV
Keeping steadfast love for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, but who will by no means clear the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children and the children's children, to the third and the fourth generation.”
Ezekiel 18:19-20 ESV
“Yet you say, ‘Why should not the son suffer for the iniquity of the father?’ When the son has done what is just and right, and has been careful to observe all my statutes, he shall surely live. The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.
John 9:1-3 ESV
As he passed by, he saw a man blind from birth. And his disciples asked him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?” Jesus answered, “It was not that this man sinned, or his parents, but that the works of God might be displayed in him.
And as a new creation is Christ, all of my sins are forgiven.
Some unstudied voices say "visiting the iniquities" to the fourth Generation supports holding children accountable. Not what the phrase means. The consequence of sin can adversely affect others in subsequent Generations. But the solution is not to fan class or race warfare, rather it is to forgive and remember no more forever.
Pay no attention to false doctrine from false teachers.
Deuteronomy 24:16 ESV
“Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.
Exodus 34:7 ESV
Keeping steadfast love for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, but who will by no means clear the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children and the children's children, to the third and the fourth generation.”
Ezekiel 18:19-20 ESV
“Yet you say, ‘Why should not the son suffer for the iniquity of the father?’ When the son has done what is just and right, and has been careful to observe all my statutes, he shall surely live. The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.
John 9:1-3 ESV
As he passed by, he saw a man blind from birth. And his disciples asked him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?” Jesus answered, “It was not that this man sinned, or his parents, but that the works of God might be displayed in him.
Dave G
Well-Known Member
Brothers and sisters,
In my opinion,there is no earthly solution to this issue.
The "ball of yarn" is far too complicated, in my estimation.
Among believers, grace and charity cover a multitude of sins.
Among unbelievers, reparations are sought, and only when the offended side is satisfied, are the reparations paid in full.
We know from God's word, that the flesh is never satisfied...
This is where covetousness stems from.
This is also why bad feelings among offended parties in this world are a perpetual, ongoing problem.
For example, reparations between the "Palestinians" and Israel will undoubtedly cause much trouble right up until the Lord comes again...even when a treaty is finally reached.
As I see it, we as believers really should not stray into this sort of discussion, because God knows all things and will judge all things.
We should leave it at that and simply stick to what He commands us to do:
As much as lies within us, to be at peace with all men ( Romans 12:18-21 ).
To seek forgiveness for our own offenses, to seek to be void of offense to both God and man ( Acts of the Apostles 24:16 ), and to seek peace, and to pursue it ( 1 Peter 3:10-11 ).
I say these things as a "native American" ( Kickapoo tribe, paternal grandfather's side ), "native American" ( possibly Wampanoag tribe, maternal grandmother's side ), 14th generation English ( from Myles Standish and Barbara Standish, off both the MayFlower and the Anne, which arrived at Plymouth, MA in 1620 and 1623, respectively ), 3rd generation French ( paternal grandmother from Nova Scotia, Canada ) and a few other hereditary lines in there somewhere.
I also say these things as someone who thinks that the immediately-above is, ultimately, unimportant in the scope of what God has given me...
Eternal life ( John 17:3 ).
Finally, I say, " Leave the issue of reparations to the governments to resolve."
In my opinion,there is no earthly solution to this issue.
The "ball of yarn" is far too complicated, in my estimation.
Among believers, grace and charity cover a multitude of sins.
Among unbelievers, reparations are sought, and only when the offended side is satisfied, are the reparations paid in full.
We know from God's word, that the flesh is never satisfied...
This is where covetousness stems from.
This is also why bad feelings among offended parties in this world are a perpetual, ongoing problem.
For example, reparations between the "Palestinians" and Israel will undoubtedly cause much trouble right up until the Lord comes again...even when a treaty is finally reached.
As I see it, we as believers really should not stray into this sort of discussion, because God knows all things and will judge all things.
We should leave it at that and simply stick to what He commands us to do:
As much as lies within us, to be at peace with all men ( Romans 12:18-21 ).
To seek forgiveness for our own offenses, to seek to be void of offense to both God and man ( Acts of the Apostles 24:16 ), and to seek peace, and to pursue it ( 1 Peter 3:10-11 ).
I say these things as a "native American" ( Kickapoo tribe, paternal grandfather's side ), "native American" ( possibly Wampanoag tribe, maternal grandmother's side ), 14th generation English ( from Myles Standish and Barbara Standish, off both the MayFlower and the Anne, which arrived at Plymouth, MA in 1620 and 1623, respectively ), 3rd generation French ( paternal grandmother from Nova Scotia, Canada ) and a few other hereditary lines in there somewhere.
I also say these things as someone who thinks that the immediately-above is, ultimately, unimportant in the scope of what God has given me...
Eternal life ( John 17:3 ).
Finally, I say, " Leave the issue of reparations to the governments to resolve."
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I noticed that no one seemed to consult the post #16 concerning what took place in Ezra.
Ezra isn’t (imo) applicable because returning people to their home land and rebuilding the city isn’t what is considered reparations, but repatriation.
Ezra is about repatriation not reparations, isn’t it?
Perhaps it is both?
Would then the presentation in Ezra be reparations are a part of repatriation?
What do you consider in post #16 is correct or incorrect?
Ezra isn’t (imo) applicable because returning people to their home land and rebuilding the city isn’t what is considered reparations, but repatriation.
Ezra is about repatriation not reparations, isn’t it?
Perhaps it is both?
Would then the presentation in Ezra be reparations are a part of repatriation?
What do you consider in post #16 is correct or incorrect?
Particular
Well-Known Member
Liberia was created for a repatriation. Some left the US and went back to West Africa.
The evil of slavery can never be reversed. Humanity must live with this and confess its evil. Not one person is alive today to provide reparation. When Japanese-Americans received reparation for the stealing of their property and being placed in concentration camps, it was those who had suffered who received the reparation. When Zacheus provided reparation, it was to those whom he had swindled.
I agree with Dave in this matter. Let the secular government settle its issues as they see fit.
What I am about isn’t the politics, but the Scripture principle(s) that can be taught to the local assembly to give them as quidance in establishing their own political view(s).
Does Ezra address this issue in establishing principles as suggested in post #16?
Particular
Well-Known Member
Darius is using the movement of Jewish people to Palestine as an opportunity to move military and supplies westward in his war against Greece. When Darius covers costs for the Temple he is doing so, not for reparation, but for political and military advantage. I do not think we can read reparations into that passage.
Interesting point!
I also noticed two problems using the Ezra passage.
One is that the building of the Temple was the main focus, and the influence of God upon the heart of the King.
However, the principle is that both repatriation and reparations were accomplished.
Perhaps the two are bound together.
Is Ezra teaching that without repatriation there is no reparations?
Particular
Well-Known Member
I don't think Ezra is teaching anything. Ezra is recording what a pagan king did by ordinance of God.
Racial hatred does more harm than slavery ever did and both sides have there hatreds. Turns out even Christians have problems of letting go of hatred. True Christians are suppose to strive to love there fellow man but very few actually do. Love is the answer to racial problems Just Love your neighbors as you love your selves.
MB
MB
So you don’t see Ezra presenting a teachable principle unlike the author quoted in post #16?
Is the principle of the passage completely misrepresented by the author?
Oh I'm sorry I thought we were talking about repayment for things to done to people You know reparations.Even your thread is called reparations. Is not the subject Reparations.
MB
Go back to the OP and the follow up post #16.
We are looking for discerning the Scripture principles of reparations. Not the political discussion, but that which the Scriptures consider the believer should attend.
I choose a well known author and pastor of the “Gospel Coalition” to jump start the discussion.
Darius was honouring the decree of Cyrus. Which he searched for. It seems that the persians were not great record keepers as the didn't know where it was. Josephus said he went to the archive houses from various places he went to for his history, but it seems the Persians were, not that organised.
Anyway, the law of the Persians and Medes changeth not so he was bound to follow Cyrus.
- Isaiah 44 That saith of Cyrus, He is my shepherd, and shall perform all my pleasure: even saying to Jerusalem, Thou shalt be built; and to the temple, Thy foundation shall be laid.