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Repeating the Lords Prayer
- Thread starter Salty
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And once again - either you fail to understand the difference between "mindless babbling" and fervent prayer - or you are simply being dishonest.
I already explained and presented several Scriptural examples of fervent repetitious prayer (Luke 18:13, Rev. 4:8, Psalm 136, Dan. 3:56-88). I even showed you where CHRIST Himself prayed repetitiously (Matt. 26:44). This is proof that NOT all repetitious prayer is "rote", as you incorrectly assert.
In short - you've been proven wrong and you haven't been able to refute the Scriptural proof I presented.
If you are a non-Catholic, non-Orthodox CHRISTIAN, then you are a Protestant by definition.
Protestantism - Wikipedia
There are other quasi-Christian groups that don't qualify as Protestants, let alone, Christian, such as JWs, Mormons, Oneness Pentecostals, Christadelphians and other "Oneness" groups among others.
We clearly have a different opinion on this. But why are you so afraid to answer my question? From which biblical translation of the scriptures did you get your version? (I have shown that the KJV which is much respected by non-orthodox believers is different than what you have posted). Or, did you just write it up all by yourself, twisting the words of Jesus as they have been reported verbatim in the Holy Writ?
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Yes, I agree with this definition as it applies to prayer. Any praying that is just mindless and mechanical ifs forbidden by God. That being said, any prayers that come out of my mind (silent prayer) or mouth, my heart and soul are fully engaged.
1. A direct connection to God. 2. It encapsulates the things I believe in as a Christian. 3. It gives me comfort as it momentarily brings me to another place. (see #1). 4. It is a communal prayer that is said at every Mass.
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Hey, something on which we agree!
I cannot understand why you are babbling on and on. Did I oppose "fervent prayer?" Nope.
Did I say "all" repetitious prayer is rote? On and on you hurl falsehoods but for what purpose? To justify your rejection of the Lord's prayer as a template? Pray like this indicates it is a template.
Did you disprove we are to engage our hearts and minds in prayer, rather than mindlessly repeat rote memorization? Nope
Anyone can hurl false charges till the cows come home. I said the two versions have the same meaning. Did you disprove that by saying they use different words? Nope
Where does the version you object to differ in meaning?
And do you actually believe the KJV presents verbatim the words spoken by Christ?
If so, there is nothing I can say that could help you.
Pray like this:
Pray to the Father
and recognize His authority.
Ask for an understanding of His will,
and the willingness to follow.
Ask only for what you need,
and the wisdom to avoid needless desires.
Forgive anyone you think has sinned against you,
and ask for forgiveness for your sins.
Ask for guidance to overcome temptation, and
for insight to keep falsehoods and lies far from you.
(Matt. 6:9-15)
and recognize His authority.
Ask for an understanding of His will,
and the willingness to follow.
Ask only for what you need,
and the wisdom to avoid needless desires.
Forgive anyone you think has sinned against you,
and ask for forgiveness for your sins.
Ask for guidance to overcome temptation, and
for insight to keep falsehoods and lies far from you.
(Matt. 6:9-15)
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Walpole
Well-Known Member
The two "versions" DO NOT have the same meaning at all. You provided a deliberately changed text which perverts and corrupts the very words of Jesus. In the Lord's Prayer, Christ is PRAYING TO THE FATHER. By contrast, in your version, Christ is not praying to the Father, but instead simply giving advice to the Apostles.
Making false claims does not move the ball.
Utterly false - pray like this means pray like this.
timtofly
Well-Known Member
Your version thinks like Satan: "ask for understanding of God’s will." Satan led Eve to think one would gain understanding, if one would just eat. God never requires us to understand. It is faith and trust in God's commands and will. So you want to be willing, but you do not want God's Will to be done?
Jesus says: "Thy Will be done, in earth as it is in Heaven". No ifs, ands, or objections.
Your version starts out seeking wisdom and has to keep seeking it all the way through. Jesus' version has authority and the one doing the prayer is already willing, else they would not be praying it.
Your version may work for pagan Greeks looking for means of Salvation. The NT version is done by a member of the body of Christ with full authority to demand from God, God’s will in their lives.
Sir, your view seems unbiblical to me. It certainly ignores scripture after scripture.
Matthew 6:5
“When you pray, you are not to be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on the street corners so that they may be seen by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full.
Luke 6:28
bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you.
Luke 11:1
It happened that while Jesus was praying in a certain place, after He had finished, one of His disciples said to Him, “Lord, teach us to pray just as John also taught his disciples.”
Luke 22:40
When He arrived at the place, He said to them, “Pray that you may not enter into temptation.”
Act 8:22
“Therefore repent of this wickedness of yours, and pray the Lord that, if possible, the intention of your heart may be forgiven you.
1Corinthains 14:14
For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful.
1Corinthians 14:15
What is the outcome then? I will pray with the spirit and I will pray with the mind also; I will sing with the spirit and I will sing with the mind also.
Ephesians 1:18
I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened, so that you will know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints,
Philemon :9
And this I pray, that your love may abound still more and more in real knowledge and all discernment,
Col 1:9
For this reason also, since the day we heard of it, we have not ceased to pray for you and to ask that you may be filled with the knowledge of His will in all spiritual wisdom and understanding,
Deflection on display, answering a question with a question. First you misrepresent my view, then you claim strawman victory. Nonsense.
timtofly
Well-Known Member
These are not examples of God requiring wisdom. Did I say it is a sin to seek after wisdom? If we read the Bible the default reward is wisdom and understanding.
All that has nothing to do with demanding God's Will to be done in the Lord's Prayer.
Do you really think and believe Jesus as God Himself needed to ask God Himself for wisdom? It was not a prayer for wisdom. It was a demand for God's will to be done.
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