Repeating themes in Revelation

[canadyjd]

I’d like to discuss the way John uses repeating themes in Revelation.

The following was taught by Dr. Alan Tomlinson, PhD, at Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary while I was studying there more than 25 years ago.

I know he intended to publish his research but I’m unsure if he was able before he passed. I believed they named the biblical Greek dept after him. I hope to do him justice with my rendering.

Foundation: The scene in which John himself was of the Bema seat judgement.

This was very common in the Roman Empire and wildly popular events. Governors would hear cases, arguments from counsel and make a decision. At times, visiting dignitaries would hear the case (Paul before Festus and Herod) and occasionally the Emperor would take part (Paul appealed his case directly to the Emperor)

There were two types of cases which had 7 seals. These were death penalty cases and wills.

John was witnessing a combination of the two. Jesus would inherit all things, Christians would inherit eternal life with God, and God’s wrath would be pronounced upon the ungodly that had rejected Him and His Christ.

The seven seals were upon the scroll, most likely wax with an imprint insignia of the person who would open the scroll. And each scroll had a tiny slip at each seal that had a brief summary of what was in that section of the scroll.

Once the 7th seal was opened, the entire scroll could be read and the case laid out before the judge.

More to come

Peace to you

 

[canadyjd]

Remember the scene. John is before the Bema seat as a spectator. As the seals
are opened, the contents are explained to him. These are things that have already occurred and are being presented at trial.

Notice the brief summary.

Seal #1: white horse: The rider is a conqueror going out to conquer

Seal #2: Red horse: the rider takes peace from the earth, given a sword people are killed

Seal #3: Black horse: description of famine (high prices)

Seal #4: Ashen (white) horse: death and hades personified killing 1/4 by the sword

Seal #5: Martyrs: testifying “how long” will God withhold His judgment: Answer: Until the number of their fellow servants that will be killed is complete.

Seal #6: Natural disasters; celestial signs of God’s coming wrath.

Peace to you

 

[canadyjd]

Before the 7th seal is opened, there is what some call an “interlude” before the throne. The 144,000 from the tribes of Israel are mentioned, as well as mentioning the martyred saints again (repeating theme).

Notice the language around the martyred saints and compare to the end of Revelation, no more tears, no more pain etc. a repeating theme.

When the 7th seal is opened, the full scroll can now be read. Notice the repeating themes first found when the seals were opened. Famine, natural disasters, celestial signs of impending wrath, death and destruction.

The scroll is explaining in greater detail what was first mentioned when the seals were opened.

It is not in chronological order. Some of what is described occurred long ago. The Devil and his demons are cast from heaven and bound. The woman gives birth, Israel giving birth to the Messiah. The child (Christians) fleeing into the wildness to avoid persecution.

You see the rise of kingdoms, some specifically had already occurred in John’s time, and two more were to come.

The scroll is being read before the throne. The allegations come forth. Eventually, God’s judgment is given upon all that have rejected Him and His Christ.

I will not pretend to understand it all. I won’t attempt to give names or predictions of who is involved in each account or make predictions.

My goal here is to get you to consider what is happening in Revelation.

John is witnessing the Bema seat judgment of God. It is a courtroom. The accusations are found in the scroll, which is systematically opened and the evidence revealed, explained to John which he writes down, not in chronological order but in repeating themes.

Thank you for considering this possibility.

Peace to you

 

[Charlie24]

Before the 7th seal is opened, there is what some call an “interlude” before the throne. The 144,000 from the tribes of Israel are mentioned, as well as mentioning the martyred saints again (repeating theme).

Notice the language around the martyred saints and compare to the end of Revelation, no more tears, no more pain etc. a repeating theme.

When the 7th seal is opened, the full scroll can now be read. Notice the repeating themes first found when the seals were opened. Famine, natural disasters, celestial signs of impending wrath, death and destruction.

The scroll is explaining in greater detail what was first mentioned when the seals were opened.

It is not in chronological order. Some of what is described occurred long ago. The Devil and his demons are cast from heaven and bound. The woman gives birth, Israel giving birth to the Messiah. The child (Christians) fleeing into the wildness to avoid persecution.

You see the rise of kingdoms, some specifically had already occurred in John’s time, and two more were to come.

The scroll is being read before the throne. The allegations come forth. Eventually, God’s judgment is given upon all that have rejected Him and His Christ.

I will not pretend to understand it all. I won’t attempt to give names or predictions of who is involved in each account or make predictions.

My goal here is to get you to consider what is happening in Revelation.

John is witnessing the Bema seat judgment of God. It is a courtroom. The accusations are found in the scroll, which is systematically opened and the evidence revealed, explained to John which he writes down, not in chronological order but in repeating themes.

Thank you for considering this possibility.

Peace to you

This is the Reformed approach to Revelation and I would think Dr. Tomlinson is a Calvinist by definition.

The view is a different hermeneutics and does not recognize the separation of Israel and the Church.

So the dispensations will totally disagree with this approach.

But if you're addressing the Reformed I'm sure you'll find some agreeing.

 

[Charlie24]

This is the Reformed approach to Revelation and I would think Dr. Tomlinson is a Calvinist by definition.

The view is a different hermeneutics and does not recognize the separation of Israel and the Church.

So the dispensations will totally disagree with this approach.

But if you're addressing the Reformed I'm sure you'll find some agreeing.

Now canadyjd you may or may not be interested in the approach to Revelation from the dispensation veiw.

You may be just addressing the fellow Reformed. But if you want the dispensation view of Revelation, mainly it's approach to Revelation, I can explain that for you.

 

[canadyjd]

Now canadyjd you may or may not be interested in the approach to Revelation from the dispensation veiw.

You may be just addressing the fellow Reformed. But if you want the dispensation view of Revelation, mainly it's approach to Revelation, I can explain that for you.

Sure, explain it to me.

However, the view Dr. Tomlinson expressed not only focused on scripture, but also in 1st century Roman culture… the Bema seat judgement.

It seems clear God intended to use that common event to reveal these truths to us, because John was writing with that in mind given the description of the scene in heaven that he put forth.

Would you consider that and comment?

Thanks for the post.

Peace to you

 

[Charlie24]

Sure, explain it to me.

However, the view Dr. Tomlinson expressed not only focused on scripture, but also in 1st century Roman culture… the Bema seat judgement.

It seems clear God intended to use that common event to reveal these truths to us, because John was writing with that in mind given the description of the scene in heaven that he put forth.

Would you consider that and comment?

Thanks for the post.

Peace to you

There are so many views on this it's unreal, but I can see some see some common ground in his view with dispensations.

What John is seeing taking place in heaven is in the spiritual realm, it's a view into the spirit world before it takes place on earth with the overlaps that I think you refer to as "repeating themes." We differ in that we see it as in chronological order with the several overlaps.

The comparison with the Roman culture is interesting along with the Bema Seat. But I haven't heard it quite this way.

 

[Charlie24]

There are so many views on this it's unreal, but I can see some see some common ground in his view with dispensations.

What John is seeing taking place in heaven is in the spiritual realm, it's a view into the spirit world before it takes place on earth with the overlaps that I think you refer to as "repeating themes." We differ in that we see it as in chronological order with the several overlaps.

The comparison with the Roman culture is interesting along with the Bema Seat. But I haven't heard it quite this way.

What I would explain in the dispensational view is is that Revelation is the fulfillment of the OT prophesies. It's a sister volume to Daniel and the visions and dreams of Daniel are the same as John discusses in more detail.

The vision and dreams of Daniel concern the Daniel's people, the Jews, and that is a major theme in Rev.

It's based on Rev. 1:19, when Christ told John to write "the things which you have seen, the things which are, and the things which are hereafter."

This the outline so to speak and I would go from there, not sure that fits with the OP, but that's what I would be discussing.

 

[canadyjd]

This is the Reformed approach to Revelation and I would think Dr. Tomlinson is a Calvinist by definition.

The view is a different hermeneutics and does not recognize the separation of Israel and the Church.

So the dispensations will totally disagree with this approach.

But if you're addressing the Reformed I'm sure you'll find some agreeing.

I take issue with your assessment. This isn’t a “Reformed” view. This is scholar’s view.

Scholarship requires setting aside personal views and acknowledge what is discovered in research.

There can be no doubt the scene in heaven as described by John is that of a Bema seat judgement, common in the first century. That isn’t “Reformed”. That isn’t dispensationalism.

The seals mentioned were also common to issues being judged at the Bema, namely, death penalty cases and wills. That isn’t reformed or dispensationalism.

That the seals could only be broken by specific people and contain a brief summary of the contents is simply facts based on research, not theological views.

What effects theological views is the issue of writing in repeating themes, not chronological order.

We know John writes in repeating themes in his gospel, not chronological order. We know the situation of breaking the seals, one by one and reading the summary of the contents, then after the 7th seal is broken going back to elaborate on the sections of each seal lends itself to writing in repeating themes.

Again, my intention is not to debate Reformed or Dispensational theology. My intent is to get folks to look at the facts I laid out from this research and let that guide their study of Revelation.

I do realize many will reject this out of hand because it conflicts with their established views.

But my hope is some will at least consider it and as they study, see those repeating themes, which become obvious once you see the context. It will help you better understand what has been written

Peace to you