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Repeating themes in Revelation

Charlie24

Well-Known Member
I have always maintained that I can be convinced to change my mind based on scripture.

There are several issues that I have been convinced from scripture to change my views.

I do know know that John MacArthur (whom I admire) has dispensationalism views.

I simply cannot understand how he got there?

Peace to you

I know very little of the gentleman and can't say whether he does or doesn't.

I can say that if he did get there it was by reading Revelation the same way he read the Gospels and Acts, in a literal format.

Until he came to the parables of Christ. He said for example, "you are the salt of the earth." It's obvious this can't be taken literally and neither was it meant to be taken literal. Christ used the word "salt" to convey a truth He wanted to present.

It's the same effect in Revelation with all it's symbols representing a truth. The symbols must be determined in order to find the truth, but the Scripture must be read literally in line with the truth revealed in the symbols.

For example, the 7 Golden Candlesticks in Rev. 1:20 are the symbol of the 7 Churches of Asia and the Church in general. That is the truth the Holy Spirit is revealing with the symbols. If we are reading the context literally the symbol will complete the literal truth.

There is no need, and it will throw everything off track if we don't follow a literal reading just as the rest of the Scripture and determine the symbols as we go.

Revelation is broken down into 3 parts, "the things you have seen, the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter." This sets in motion the literal point A to B in a succession of consecutive events from the beginning to the end. It begins with the events of John's day and ends with the New Heavens and the New earth.

This is the only way of reading that will bring all the pieces together.
 

Alan Dale Gross

Active Member
I can say that if he did get there it was by reading Revelation the same way he read the Gospels and Acts, in a literal format.
If he did than he missed everything, essentially, except thinking he understands what a church is, in the first three chapters, when the churches there are intirely different there than what he believes a church to be.

Many interpreters claim that from chapter 4 on the book of Revelation contains information only relative to some time in the future and, therefore, has no practical importance to any of its readers, from the first Century, until Jesus Comes Again.

And yet Revelation is the most practical book in the Bible, with its Promise, in 1:3; "Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand."

Once an individual is Blessed to read it as God Intended and Designed, they are Enabled to "keep those things which are written therein".

Divorcing and sequestering chapter 4-22 to the future may seemingly free anyone from gaining any actual concrete interpretation of Revelation, but that also results in an impossibility for anyone to, "keep those things which are written therein."

It's the same effect in Revelation with all it's symbols representing a truth.
Symbolic language and all other Figures of Speech are actually literary literature that is a part of literal speech, i.e., "its symbols representing a truth" will express that truth more meaningfully, suggestively, knowingly, purposefully, and revealingly
and gives a fuller understanding of what it means and is saying than any strict wooden letterism.

If we are reading the context literally the symbol will complete the literal truth.
In the same way that so many parties refer to the book of Revelation, by calling it, "the Revelation of Saint John the Apostle", when the Bible calls it "The Revelation of Jesus Christ", in Revelation 1:1; "The Revelation of Jesus Christ,

there is also another salient point in that first verse of Revelation, which indicates its Apocalyptical genre, (although it has attempted to be entirely robbed from God's children in recent years, by versions which LEAVE IT OUT and make a non-interpretation of it), when God's Reveals that Revelation is fully intended to be read as it is given, when it uses the word, "signified"; "which God gave unto him, to shew unto His servants things which must shortly come to pass; and He sent and signified it by His Angel unto His servant John:"

ἐσήμανεν (from σῆμα a sign); from (Homer), Aeschylus, Herodotus down; to give a sign, to signify. To indicate by a sign, emblem.
 

Alan Dale Gross

Active Member
There is no need, and it will throw everything off track if we don't follow a literal reading just as the rest of the Scripture and determine the symbols as we go.
"which God gave unto him, to shew unto His servants things which must shortly come to pass; and He sent and signified it by His Angel unto His servant John:"
Revelation is broken down into 3 parts, "the things you have seen, the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter."
This goes into a little detail showing how The Final Judgment is mentioned to some extent in each of the Seven Visions and it will also be interesting to note that each of the Seven Visions mention a depiction of Jesus' First Advent.

So, he is not kidding when he begins by saying,
"...all the Seven Sections, or SEVEN VISIONS, of the Apocalypse Run Parallel and Span the Period between the First and Second Comings of Christ..."

Each VISION has a depiction of Jesus' First Advent, like in Revelation 1:5; "And from Jesus Christ, Who is the Faithful Witness, and the First Begotten of the dead, and the Prince of the kings of the Earth. Unto Him that Loved us, and Washed us from our sins in His Own Blood," and each VISION has a depiction of Jesus' Second Advent, such as in Revelation 1:7; "Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen."

Then, in the Second VISION, as Chapter 4 begins, we see in 4:2 Jesus' First Advent at His ASCENTION to HIS THRONE, "And immediately I was in the Spirit: and, behold, a Throne was set in Heaven, and One sat on the Throne.

AND, AS WE WILL SEE BELOW (along with all the other Seven VISIONS) JESUS' SECOND ADVENT is depicted in Revelation's Second VISION, in 6:12; "And I beheld when He had opened the Sixth Seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; etc.

With each VISION describing The First Advent and Second Advent of Jesus, it easy to arrive at the structure given to the book of Revelation, by God;


"...all the Sections, or ALL SEVEN VISIONS, of the Apocalypse run Parallel and Span the Period between the First and Second Comings of Christ and are rooted in the soil of the Old Testament, yet there is also a degree of progress.

"The closer we approach the end of the book the more our attention is directed to the Final Judgment and that which lies beyond it. The Seven Sections of Seven Visions are arranged, as it were, in an ascending, climactic order. The book reveals a gradual progress in eschatological emphasis.

"A careful examination of the Apocalypse will make this clear.

"In the First Section—The VISION of Christ in the Midst of the Seven Golden Lampstands—we have no more than a mere announcement of Christ’s Coming unto Judgment (i: 7). There is no description of the judgment.

"In the Second Section (chapters 4-7), the Final Judgment is not merely announced but definitely introduced; we catch a glimpse of the horror which fills the wicked when they see the Judge Coming to them (6: 12 ff. ). But that is all. There is no description. A few verses are devoted to a description of the Church triumphant after the Final Judgment (7: 9 ff. ).

"The next VISION, similarly (chapters 8-11), introduces the Final Judgment and the joy of the redeemed (11: 15 ff. ).

"In the three VISIONS in these Three Sections which comprise the First Main Division of the book (chapters 1-11), we do not come across anything more than a mere announcement of or introduction to the Final Judgment. But as soon as we enter the Second Main Division of the book there is a change.

"In the very First VISION of this Second Main Division we have a real description of the Final Judgment (14: 14 if. ). It is, however, a symbolic representation. Under the symbolism of a Double Harvest the Final Judgment is pictured to us.

"The next VISION (chapters 15, 16) describes the pouring out of God’s Final Wrath, so that this Section, though synchronous with the others, is in a special sense descriptive of the Final Judgment.

"In the next VISION, the Fall of Babylon (chapters 17-19), this emphasis upon Christ’s Second Coming in Judgment and its meaning for the World and for the Churches of the Lord Jesus Christ, both militant and triumphant, is even greater. (See especially 19: 11, 12. )

"The Seventh or Final Section and Seventh VISION (chapters 20-22) not only describes the Final Judgment, but in this description drops much of the symbolism of the earlier VISIONS. Nothing is vague or indefinite and little is clothed with symbolism (20: 12 if. ). The joy of the redeemed in the New Heaven and Earth is described much more circumstantially than, for example, in 7: 9 if. The book has reached its glorious climax.

"Proposition IV. The Seven Sections of Seven VISIONS of the Apocalypse are arranged in an ascending, climactic order. There is progress in eschatological emphasis. The Final Judgment is first announced, then introduced and finally described. Similarly, the New Heaven and Earth are described more fully in the Final VISION than in those which precede it.

"To this conception of Revelation we give the name ‘Progressive Parallelism’.

From; CHAPTER FOUR: PROGRESSIVE TEACHING CONCERNING FINAL JUDGMENT.

This sets in motion the literal point A to B in a succession of consecutive events from the beginning to the end.
This is the Death Nail to any understanding of the book of Revelation at all.

It is not structured to be read as if it is describing 'the literal point A to B in a succession of consecutive events from the beginning to the end', Revelation is structured to literially read where each VISION has a depiction of Jesus' First Advent and Jesus' Second Advent, which then Reveals that "...all the Sections, or ALL SEVEN VISIONS, of the Apocalypse run Parallel and Span the Period between the First and Second Comings of Christ and are rooted in the soil of the Old Testament, yet there is also a degree of progress.

It begins with the events of John's day and ends with the New Heavens and the New earth.
Some begin with 'the events of John's day', then drop it cold turkey and propose that none of the rest of Revelation applies to any of the Human Race, until some future date, however, I see that as being 'Not of God'.

This is the only way of reading that will bring all the pieces together.
Revelation wasn't written that way and when read as if each chapter runs consecutively, one after the other, 100% of the resulting wild rash speculations are 100% in and of the flesh and worthless.

And, sadly, they all start with an argument from silence, simply inventing AND LYING that Jesus will One Day Reign on Earth a Thousand Years.

See if you see the word 'earth', or 'land', or 'Palestine', or 'Jerusalem', or 'Israel', or 'The Jews', etc., in Revelation 20:4; "And I saw Thrones, and they sat upon them, and Judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the Word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years."

Everything that is happening in this verse is taking place right now in Heaven, since Jesus Ascended to His Throne, so where is some other verse somewhere that talks about a SECOND THOUSAND YEAR REIGN OF JESUS THAT'S GOING TO TAKE PLACE 'ON EARTH'?
 
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