Repent and Be Saved?

[Joy]

I'd like to generate some discussion on Repentance Salvation. Specifically, where does repentance fit into salvation? Do you have to believe, or do you have to repent in order to be saved? Or both? Do you define repentance as feeling remorse for your sin, or turning from it, or both? How much sin do you have to turn from? How sorry does one have to be to be repentant?

Fire Away!!

 

[Chris Temple]

There is no salvation apart from repentance.

Repentance — There are three Greek words used in the New Testament to denote repentance. (1.) The verb metamelomai is used of a change of mind, such as to produce regret or even remorse on account of sin, but not necessarily a change of heart. This word is used with reference to the repentance of Judas (Matt. 27:3).
(2.) Metanoeo, meaning to change one’s mind and purpose, as the result of after knowledge. This verb, with (3.) the cognate noun metanoia, is used of true repentance, a change of mind and purpose and life, to which remission of sin is promised.
Evangelical repentance consists of (1) a true sense of one’s own guilt and sinfulness; (2) an apprehension of God’s mercy in Christ; (3) an actual hatred of sin (Ps. 119:128; Job 42:5, 6; 2 Cor. 7:10) and turning from it to God; and (4) a persistent endeavour after a holy life in a walking with God in the way of his commandments.
The true penitent is conscious of guilt (Ps. 51:4, 9), of pollution (51:5, 7, 10), and of helplessness (51:11; 109:21, 22). Thus he apprehends himself to be just what God has always seen him to be and declares him to be. But repentance comprehends not only such a sense of sin, but also an apprehension of mercy, without which there can be no true repentance (Ps. 51:1; 130:4). {Eastons}

 

[Scarlett O.]

Just a quick thought.

To BELIEVE that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God, the Savior of the World, then you have to acknowledge his unique attributes.

His holiness.
His purity.
His being God.
His resurrection.
His glory and power.

And to BELIEVE that His attributes make Him unique, you have to first compare Him with all other living people, including yourself.

And that's where CONVICTION comes in. You are convicted and convinced that He is who He said he was.

That conviction turns into a solid BELIEF. And because you believe, then you turn to Jesus Christ, the Son of the Living God, in full REPENTANCE.

REPENTANCE of what? Various sins, obviously, but I really believe that what you are repentant of when you come to Christ is the fact that you are a worm, a no-good sinner, a worthless piece of clay.

You are repentant of who you ARE, and yes that does include what you do. But who you are, a person of a sinful NATURE, causes you to commit various sins. It's your nature that you are initially repentant of.

As we walk with Christ, we are truly to be repentant of individual sins, but in coming to Him initially, we are repentant of our nature that draws us in to unique sins.

I believe:

1. CONVICTION of sinful nature and conviction of Christ's perfection.
2. Secondly, conviction growns into a full blown BELIEF that it is all real and God is telling the truth about mankind and redemption.
3. A true and firm belief brings about Full REPENTANCE. Repentance of your nature first. That's what saves you. And repentance of you individual sins second. That's what keeps you on track with Christ.

Peace-

YSIC
Scarlett O.
<><

 

[Joy]

Interesting thoughts so far- please continue! Salvation is simple, but the Doctrine of Salvation is not as easy to understand for some.

My concerns come when repentance is taught as a complete forsaking of sin for salvation, which implies that we must keep the law or a law. Also, how can we repent or turn from sin without the Holy Spirit quikening us? In our sinful nature, we are dead- unable to do anything about our sin, let alone stop doing it. What about the theme of Romans- the just shall live by faith. What about the fact that when the Philippian jailor and Nicodemous asked what they needed to do for salvation, the answer was only to believe? What about Ephesians 2:8,9- that is is not of works, lest man should boast? Couldn't we boast if we said we stopped smoking, or whatever sin beguiled us?

Do we repent and believe, or do we believe, and God grants repentance?

Thanks in advance for clarifying!

 

[Naomi]

Originally posted by Joy:
Interesting thoughts so far- please continue! Salvation is simple, but the Doctrine of Salvation is not as easy to understand for some.

I don't think it should be so difficult to understand

I mean Jesus said to come as little children, not as Scholars.

[/QB][/QUOTE]
My concerns come when repentance is taught as a complete forsaking of sin for salvation, which implies that we must keep the law or a law.
[/QB][/QUOTE]

Then people seem to think it is by good works.

[/QB][/QUOTE]
In our sinful nature, we are dead- unable to do anything about our sin, let alone stop doing it.
[/QB][/QUOTE]

It is His kindness that leads us to repentance. I see it as, Jesus invites us to receive the good news of the gospel message, and if we believe the message is true, we will see our sins, and repent, then place our trust in Him, and take on the new nature. Then He comes into us, by means of the Holy Spirit, and dwells within us and guides us, and as we submit to His will, we become more sensitive to His voice.

[/QB][/QUOTE]
What about the theme of Romans- the just shall live by faith. What about the fact that when the Philippian jailor and Nicodemous asked what they needed to do for salvation, the answer was only to believe? What about Ephesians 2:8,9- that is is not of works, lest man should boast? Couldn't we boast if we said we stopped smoking, or whatever sin beguiled us?
[/QB][/QUOTE]

Amen! It is only by grace. Nicodemus thought man had to earn it, where Jesus said it was not man's job to earn it, it was mans job to receive it.
I did not stop smoking because I wanted to earn salvation, I stopped smoking because I did not want anything to be a hindrance in my relationship with the Lord. I stopped drinking and doing drugs because I heard the salvation message, and saw what my life was about, and wanted to change the path I was on. His kindness is what led me to do so. Do I boast in this? No.
Did The Holy Spirit help me? Yes! First I had to submit to Him. Jesus said He could do nothing in a certain town because of their unbelief. It is only when we make a choice to believe in Him, that He grants us the power to overcome.

[/QB][/QUOTE]

Do we repent and believe, or do we believe, and God grants repentance?

[/QB][/QUOTE]

I see in the scriptures that Jesus said to Believe, then when we believe that what Jesus did for us is truth, then our eyes are open to see our sin, then we repent (turn away) from our sins and we are saved.
Are we perfect? No way! As we grow in the scriptures, and in prayer, we are quicker to
respond to His voice, after we are saved.

[/QB][/QUOTE]
Thanks in advance for clarifying! [/QB][/QUOTE]

Your welcome!
Wonderful post!

Naomi

 

[rstrats]

Naomi,

re: “It is only when we make a choice to believe in Him......”

Since you seem to be implying that a person has the ability to CHOOSE to believe that someone or something does or doesn’t exist, I wonder if you might share how you think it is accomplished? What do you do at the last moment to make the instantaneous change from lack of belief to belief?

 

[russell55]

Do we repent and believe, or do we believe, and God grants repentance?

Repentance is part of saving faith. Saving faith always includes repentance.

Both saving faith and repentance are granted to us.

 

[Bartholomew]

I think saved people are very handy at trying to add to salvation. All you have to do is believe. That's it. God punishes his children for wrong-doing, but ultimately if you just believe you'll be saved. If we have to repent, then why do Christians disagree about things? Some of us must be teaching things that aren't true; yet we're not repenting of doing so. Does this mean Calvinists are unsaved? Or is it Arminians? Or both? Someone isn't repenting of teaching false doctrine - and that is sin. Let's not add ANYTHING to salvation - that is legalism.

 

[Pastor Larry]

Scripture delineates faith and repentance as two things that go together. REpentance is not an adding to faith any more than faith is a denial of repentance. Acts 11 uses them in parallel to show that where one is, the other of necessity is.

Acts 11:17-18 "Therefore if God gave to them the same gift as He gave to us also after believing in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could stand in God's way?" When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, "Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life."

Repentance is part of the message of the Great Commission: Luke 24:46-47 and He said to them, "Thus it is written, that the Christ would suffer and rise again from the dead the third day, and that repentance for forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed in His name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem. If you do not preach repentance, then you have not preached the gospel.

Christ told the Pharisees, "I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish." (Luke 13:3). For Christ, repentance was an inherent part of saving faith.

Simply put, repentance is a change of mind that results in a change of behavior. A study of the OT and NT words Chris mentioned above will bear this out.

 

[Helen]

Joy asked, Do we repent and believe, or do we believe, and God grants repentance?


Both, I think, Joy. Even the vilest among us knows certain things are wrong, and he can be sorry for doing them, even though he is powerless to change. Kind of like a drug addict admitting he is stealing to support his habit but unable to break the habit and thus stop the 'need' for stealing. And I recall that John the Baptist came first, preaching repentance.

Before salvation. And he challenged the Pharisees to produce fruits in keeping with repentance! In other words, if you are truly sorry about the way you have been behaving, at least you will TRY to behave better! That doesn't mean what you do is pleasing to God, only that people are expected to exercise a little self-control over their nasty tendencies, and that this can be done to some extent -- and is, everyday.

However, once we are born again, we become so much more aware of the difference between what we were and did before and now that the level of shame for sins (already forgiven!) is immeasurably deepened and repentance takes on a whole new meaning in terms of depth and conviction.

So yes, there must be some amount of repentance for salvation. It's not complete, it's not deep, but it shows the desire of the heart to try to respond to what is good and true, and Jesus said clearly "Seek and ye shall find; ask and ye shall receive..."

There must be some seeking, some asking, in the first place. Seek in the wrong places; ask the wrong questions -- that's OK. God knows the intent and will work with that person to show him Jesus. It is the acceptance or refusal of our Lord Jesus Christ which is the telling point. The sins are not what send a man to hell; refusing Jesus is.

 

[LadyEagle]

The sins are not what send a man to hell; refusing Jesus is.

Amen!

 

[Naomi]

Originally posted by rstrats:
[QB]

Since you seem to be implying that a person has the ability to CHOOSE to believe that someone or something does or doesn’t exist, I wonder if you might share how you think it is accomplished? QB]

I have the ability to choose, just as I have the ability to choose if I am going to be a servant to my flesh or a servant to the Spirit. I have a choice if I am going to go to church or go to a club and drink. There are many choices I have. I am not a pre-programmed robot who has no choices in my life. If that were true, it would not be real love. It would be a programmed love. All are invited to the Marriage supper. Not all will come. It is not a pre-arranged marriage, it is a marriage that is founded on love. For God so loved the world....
Jesus said "It is finished". He came to earth, to show us what we must do to be saved. Believe in Him. Put your trust in what He completed on the Cross. He became our sacrifice. It is totally finished. We cannot add one single thing to what He did. Our job is to accept it.
Naomi

 

[Joy]

Some interesting perspectives so far! Please continue. I'm not playing Devil's Advocate here- just sort of surveying what you all believe. Thanks!

 

[Joy]

Please- let's stay on course here- we can debate Calvinism later. I really want to hear about repentance!

 

[Naomi]

Originally posted by Joy:
Please- let's stay on course here- we can debate Calvinism later. I really want to hear about repentance!

I apologize for getting off the subject at hand.
I repent!!

After all, you did want to hear about repentance didn't you LOL LOL
Naomi

 

[Michael C. Lewis]

Hi Guys,
First of all, The Holy Spirit
1. convicts us of our sinfulness,
2. convinces us of our need of a savior,
3. compells (ie. "draws") us to Christ.

I believe that our "repentance" at the time of salvation, involves a willingness to "turn away" from a lifestyle of sin. Every wannabe Christian must first "repent" of "self" (ie. Matthew 16:24), and be willing to give up "my way" to go "God's way".

I came to Christ -- "Just As I Am" -- not knowing exactly what I was getting into, but choosing to follow the tug at my heart strings. The "new creature" (ie. 2 Corinthians 5:17) I became was not my doing, but God's work from within me!

Praise God! He cleansed me from all unrighteousness! His crimson blood covers my scarlet sins!

In Christ,
Mike

 

[DHK]

There are many today that teach you must repent of your sins. I don't believe the Bible ever teaches this, as it would be an impossibility for a sinner to come to Christ and list all the sins that he has committed, and then repent of them.
I agree with Mike that repentance is a change of lifestyle. Repent means to turn around, to change. When one repents, he repents OF his old wicked lifestyle that he was living, and he repents unto God. He turns away from the life that he was living, and He turns his lifestyle toward God. It is a repentance toward God.
Saving belief includes repentance.

Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
DHK

 

[Joy]

Another question on the subject- How does a small child, say under the age of 5 repent?

 

[Pastor Larry]

Originally posted by DHK:
There are many today that teach you must repent of your sins. ... Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
DHK

What do you think God is commanding men to repent of? The only thing there is to repent of is sin. Repentance does nto require an exhaustive listing. It requires a change of mind about sin with an appropriate lifestyle.

To Helen, who said that people are not going to hell for their sins, Sin is the only thing that people go to hell for. If there was no sin, then there would be no hell. According to Rev 20:11-15 and the judgment from the books, it seems quite obvious that the GWT judgment does involve the sins committed in this life. They are judged "according to their deeds that are written in the books."

For God to send people to hell without a valid basis of sin would make God unjust. That is why sin must be repented of. It is the just basis on which God condemns people to hell.

 

[hrhema]

It is strange to me that people will read things in the Bible that is there in black and white and then will turn right around and argue about it.

John the Baptist came preaching repentance. So did Jesus who I think being the son of God has a lot more authority on the subject.

Peter who was given the keys to the Kingdom of God said in Act 2:38. Repent, and be Baptized.

People can argue doctrinal issues until the cows come home but you cannot change the fact that Jesus and Peter preached repentance.

Also to say we cannot overcome sin is absolutely anti-biblical. We are to be striving to overcome. Paul taught that we are not to live in sin.

Yes we do slip and make mistakes and even sin
because we are human but I get so tired of hearing people use grace as an excuse to sin and live in sin. It is human nature to excuse ourselves.