Repent and Be Saved?

[Naomi]

Originally posted by Joy:
Another question on the subject- How does a small child, say under the age of 5 repent?

How does a person who is mentally challenged repent? What about someone who is suffering from Alzheimers? What about someone is is in a coma?What about someone who is insane?
I know that God is Just and fair. He is so understanding. He know us better than we know ourselves, therefore, God alone can be the only one to Judge.
John preached repentance. I think God will Judge each of us accordingly. I,personally knew what I needed to repent of when I got saved. We are accountable for our own lives.
When we go out witnessing, we always run into the ones who say...but what about the ones in Africa who has never heard the Gospel? We always reply...God is a Just and Fair Judge. Now, what about you who is hearing the good news? What are you going to do with it?
When we make it more personal, according to each individual, it becomes more of a "reality" of accountability.
A five year old, can be exremely sensitive to spiritual things. After-all, they are not bound up by all the "doctinal issues" LOL
Perhaps that is why Jesus said to come as little children!
Naomi
Joy, are you setting us up for something?

 

[Joy]

Nope! I understand completely, but most folks who preach repent and be saved, forget that the ones hearing it do not. It is important for us to learn the doctrine, so that we in turn preach it properly, or we end of with folks who think they didn't say the right prayer, or weren't sure if they repented when they were 3 , or have trouble doubting all their lives because of their sinful nature, or worse- ones that never get it, because they don't believe that they can overcome sin- due to the over-emphasis of repentance/works/turning/giving up specific habits.

I believe that belief and repentance of our sinful nature is pretty much simultaneous. When we believe that we are a sinner, needing Savior to take the penalty for our own sin, repentance is kind of like the light bulb that goes off in our heads- oh my, I am wicked! I don't deserve eternal life- Lord, you are the only one who can forgive my debt. That is a turning from our own nature, to God's grace.

However, if all you ever say is, "Repent!" unsaved folks are inclined to think that means, "Stop sinning!" of which they are incapable of doing without the aid of the Holy Spirit, which they receive at Salvation, and not before!

If we are not careful, repentance turns into works. Repentance is turning to God. It is recognizing that in our sinful condition, we can not enter Heaven without the saving grace of Christ. It is not giving up sin. If it were, then we could be saved by keeping the Law. The giving up of sin comes after believing on the Lord Jesus Christ, whose very name indicates Deity, The Savior, the Promised Messiah, the one who is able to save us from our sin.

Repentance can't be measured by how sorry we are or how much sin or which sins we turn from. Again, we can't be sorry enough or turn from enough sin to be saved. We have to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ for our salvation, not in our own ability to "repent."

 

[Michael C. Lewis]

Originally posted by Joy:
We have to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ for our salvation, not in our own ability to "repent."

Joy,
When we kneel to accept Christ, we are saying, "Lord, I am willing to follow You." At that point, we are accepting His lordship in our lives.
By doing this, we are showing a "willingness"
to repent, or to turn away, from our old sinful lifestye.

When I was saved, I had no concept of an "ability" to do anything righteous. I was broken, and my total reliance was on Christ.

I was saved because I accepted a gift from God, and trusted Him to fix me!

Repentance must be preached, because it illustrates the sins that the Holy Spirit convicts us of! It shows that God will not accept our fleshly, self-serving lifestyle!

When "repentance" is preached, it shows lost humanity that "All have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God" and it softens the heart so that conviction can take hold, and lead a person to Christ -- whom we know as their only Hope!

A Christian "IS" a "new creature" (ie. 2 Corinthians 5:17), in that the "ability" to change, or repent now resides within him! If Jesus is truly Lord of his life, the power to turn away from sinful ways is now his, and it is compulsory! A true Christian cannot happily dwell in sin!

IMHO, preaching repentance in a gospel message, simply tells the unsaved that, "You must turn from sin, but you can only do that by accepting Christ's gift of salvation!"

In Christ,
Mike

 

[FaithRemains]

For what it's worth, here is my opinion on the matter:

We all sin, because we are all human. But all of man's sins are not what sends him to Hell. Only the sin of not accepting (or in other words, rejecting) God will send a person to Hell. This is the sin that needs repentance of for salvation.

Yes, this can be difficult to explain to an unsaved person, or maybe this makes perfect sence to an unsaved person. I believe that the Bible explains how to be saved in several different ways (repent, believe, call upon the Lord....) because different things will convince different people.

~Joshua H.

 

[Ray Berrian]

Michael,

I experienced the same thing when I came to Christ or He drew me to Himself, whichever way people like to hear it expressed. Thanks for your Biblical input.

 

[rstrats]

Naomi,

Thanks for replying, but you didn’t respond to my question. I have never been able to consciously CHOOSE any of the beliefs that I have and I would like to be able to do that. Since you say that you have the ability to CHOOSE to believe something, I would like to know how you do it. What do you do at the last moment to cause your lack of belief in the existence of someone or something instantly change to belief?

 

[MissAbbyIFBaptist]

Repentance and salvation? Yes!
The plan of salvation is very simple, and it REALLY bothers me when people add to it. I believe in the need for repentance for salvation, but that dosn't mean I'm going to add works to it.
If any of you read my testimony then you know that my grandpa lead me to the Lord. He used his Bible and a tract. Here are a few points from the tract:
"Are you 100% sure you would go to Heaven when you die?
*God says we have an apointment with death.
Heb 9:27
Can a person be 100% sure they will go to Heaven when they die?
*God says you can know! 1 John 5:13
Many believe being good will get them to Heaven.
*God says there is none who is good. Romans 3:10, Rom.3:12b, Rom. 10:23
*God says there is a punishment for sin. Romans 6:23a
Jesus died for all of us so we wouldn't have to go to hell! John 3:16, Romans 5:8
Jesus shed His precious blood to wash away our sin. Colossians 1:14
* God says we must believe this with our heart, not just our head. Romans 10:9
{Now here is what I'm getting at}
God says you must repent. "I tell you, Nay: but except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish" Luke 13:3
This means to be sorry for your sin and have a desire to turn from your sin to Jesus Christ and recieve Him as your lord and Saviour. II Coritnthians 7:10
God says anyone can be saved. Roamns 10:13
If you believe this gospel of Jesus Christ with all your heart, then by simple child-like faith recieve Him by calling upon His name.
Please do it now, before it's too late! John 3:36, Revelation 20:15"

now notice repentance is clearly pointed out. When I got saved I had no doubt that I was a sinner!
As for dealing with young children, be careful. It's very easy to lead them into a false profession. A false hope is worse that no hope. And I know from experiance that this is true. Make sure you explain to them very carefully the way to salvation. If when you ask them if they have sined, and they say no, then they really don't understand. I know, because I was one of these kids, and it was several years untill I finaly did get saved.
YSAFIC,
Abby

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by saved by grace 1999:
God says you must repent. "I tell you, Nay: but except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish" Luke 13:3
This means to be sorry for your sin and have a desire to turn from your sin to Jesus Christ and recieve Him as your lord and Saviour. II Coritnthians 7:10

This is easy believism, and bad theology. Repentance (in regards to salvation), is not sorrow for sin. Judas was sorry for his sin and went out and hanged himself. Yet he was not saved. Many are sorry for what they have done. The jails are full of them. But they are not saved.
Joy correctly defined repentance: "it is a turning to God." To elaborate, it is a turning away from our old sinful life and a turning to God. It is turning around or changing direction.

The old deacon, with the rest of the congregation heard the Methodist preacher preach a flowery message on repentance that went right over the heads of the people leaving them kind of starry-eyed. The wise old deacon got up, went to the preacher, and asked if he could say a few words. With permisssion granted, He walked down the aisle toward the door, all the time shouting: "I'm going to Hell.! I'm going to Hell!" Then, when he reached the door, he turned about and came back, all the while shouting, "I'm going to Heaven! I'm going to Heaven!" Then he said, "Folks, that's repentance." They got the point.
DHK

 

[Karen]

Originally posted by DHK:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by saved by grace 1999:
God says you must repent. "I tell you, Nay: but except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish" Luke 13:3
This means to be sorry for your sin and have a desire to turn from your sin to Jesus Christ and recieve Him as your lord and Saviour. II Coritnthians 7:10

This is easy believism, and bad theology. Repentance (in regards to salvation), is not sorrow for sin. Judas was sorry for his sin and went out and hanged himself. Yet he was not saved. Many are sorry for what they have done. The jails are full of them. But they are not saved.
Joy correctly defined repentance: "it is a turning to God." To elaborate, it is a turning away from our old sinful life and a turning to God. It is turning around or changing direction.
......
DHK</font>[/QUOTE]I find it hard to see any difference in what you have said, DHK, and what you are calling easy believism. Both of you have pointed out the turning necessary.

Karen

 

[tyndale1946]

Jeremiah 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

God is the only one that can change the heart as the scripture states and because they are now his children they have the ability to repent.

II Chronicles 7:13 If I shut up heaven that there be no rain, or if I command the locusts to devour the land, or if I send pestilence among my people;

14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

15 Now mine eyes shall be open, and mine ears attent unto the prayer that is made in this place.

We repent because we already are his people and not to become his people!... Brother Glen

 

[Naomi]

Originally posted by rstrats:
Naomi,

Thanks for replying, but you didn’t respond to my question. I have never been able to consciously CHOOSE any of the beliefs that I have and I would like to be able to do that. Since you say that you have the ability to CHOOSE to believe something, I would like to know how you do it. What do you do at the last moment to cause your lack of belief in the existence of someone or something instantly change to belief?

Well, I would have to say that I agree that it is God who "stands at the door and knocks", and He draws us to Himself. I think at that point, we have a choice to receive His gift of salvation or reject it. I believe it is a gift that is offered to everyone who would choose to respond to that "knock". It is His kindness that leads us to repentance.
However; I believe that I still need to repent of even after salvation. I know my sins have been paid for at the cross, but there are attitudes I may have or a lack of love for my neighbor's that I may need to repent for. I ask Jesus to forgive me of my sins all the time. I guess it just goes to show how much more I need Him.
Can I make the choice on my own? I think I can.
Can I overcome on my own? NO WAY!
When I make the choice to believe, He forgives me and saves me. When I make the choice after salvation to follow after the flesh, and I repent, He forgives me.
It is not by any of my own power to be set free, it is only by God's power.
I hope I answered your question

I guess I am explaining my answer too much. Let me know
Naomi

 

[dave brauer]

I for one was not an "adopted" child of God before my salvation. I was lost in sin. Because of the faithful gospel witness of others, I saw my sin as vile, evil, wicked, ugly, detestible. I experienced sorrow, I expressed that sorrow & guilt.

At the time of my salvation I no longer desired the sinful life I was living. I wanted to receive salvation in Jesus Christ. Nothing else mattered. I turned from my sins to serve the living God. I believed in Jesus Christ and in what He did for me (He died in my place, that I might have life).

Salvation testimonies vary tremendously, but repentence is as essential as our believing. The devils believe and tremble. Any devil can believe. Every sinner must believe and repent to be saved. Repent and be converted.

 

[aiki]

rstrats:

I am a little confused by your claim not to have ever consciously chosen any of your beliefs. Can you expand on this please? Thanks.

 

[rstrats]

aiki,

re: “I am a little confused by your claim not to have ever consciously chosen any of your beliefs. Can you expand on this please?”

I’m not really sure how I can expand on my statement. I simply have never been able to actually CHOOSE to believe - convince myself, without having any doubt - that someone or something does or doesn’t exist or that some proposition is or isn’t true. I am still hoping that someone who says that they can do just that will be able to explain what it is that they do at the last moment to make the instantaneous transition from lack of belief to belief.

 

[Naomi]

Originally posted by rstrats:


I am still hoping that someone who says that they can do just that will be able to explain what it is that they do at the last moment to make the instantaneous transition from lack of belief to belief.

You say, at the last moment, and instantaneous transition...what do you mean?
I think everyone believes in God. Even if they claim they do not. The bible tells us, that even the demons believe, yet they tremble.
In my experience of talking to (Athiests) about God, they will often say that they do not believe in God, yet into our conversation, they wil say, " Why would God allow this to happen?" They have proven to me over and over, that the problem does not lie in their question of belief, but they end up proving that they are angry at God. In fact, they study the Bible more than alot of Christians do!
I say this, to demonstrate that I believe God has made Himself known to everyone. The difference in the saved and the lost, is the saved chose to place their trust, and hope, and salvation in what was accomplished at the cross. The lost have chosen not to accept Jesus as Lord and Savior. They put their trust in themselves, and therefore want to be self-sufficient, with only their own rules to follow. This equates to our sinful nature.
Our choice: Self sufficiency or total trust and abandanment to the gospel of Jesus Christ.
To believe or not believe. We do have the ability.
Naomi

 

[rstrats]

Naomi,

re: “You say, at the last moment, and instantaneous transition...what do you mean?”

Just that. You can’t believe that someone or something exists or that a certain proposition is true and at the same time not believe it. There has to be an instant when the one state of mind changes to the other.

re: “.....I believe God has made Himself known to everyone.”

So in the case of believing in a supreme being, you are saying that there is no CHOICE involved. The belief is placed in the individual by that supreme being. The only CHOICE one has would be in taking or not taking actions that this supreme being sets forth.

re: “To believe or not believe. We do have the ability.”

No doubt about it. However, my question was not about one’s ability to believe, but rather about one’s ability to consciously CHOOSE to believe - convince one’s self, without any doubt - that someone or something does or doesn’t exist or that a certain proposition is or isn’t true. Since you seem to imply that you have that ability, I was hoping that you could explain how you do it.

 

[Naomi]

rstats:
So in the case of believing in a supreme being, you are saying that there is no CHOICE involved. The belief is placed in the individual by that supreme being. The only CHOICE one has would be in taking or not taking actions that this supreme being sets forth.

Scriptures tell us, "Choose this day whom ye shall serve...."
I believe we are either serving self, or serving God. In other words, Our flesh is always trying to be in control. The spirit and flesh are in war.

rstats:
re: To believe or not believe. We do have the ability.

Since you seem to imply that you have that ability, I was hoping that you could explain how you do it.

You mean the ability to choose to serve God, rather than my "Old nature" ?? I chose to take God at His word, Revelation 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come into Him, and will sup with him and he with me.

Then, as He fills us with the Holy Spirit, we are BornAgain, and we are able to overcome by the Spirit that dwells within us.
Naomi
What are you really asking? Are you wondering about salvation or if we have a choice in the matter? If you believe, how did you know you were saved?

(good conversation rstats)

 

[rstrats]

Naomi,

re: “You mean the ability to choose to serve God, rather than my "Old nature" ??”

No. I mean the ability to consciously CHOOSE to believe - convince one’s self without any doubt - that someone or something does or doesn’t exist or that a certain proposition is or isn’t true.


re: “What are you really asking?”

As I’ve said, I have never been able to actually CHOOSE any of the beliefs that I currently hold. Since you say that you can CHOOSE to believe something, I would like to know how you do it. What do you do at the last moment to make your lack of belief in something, instantly change to belief?

re: “Are you wondering about salvation.......”

No, at least not for the purpose of this discussion.

re: “......or if we have a choice in the matter? “

Only if belief is involved with the CHOICE.

 

[Naomi]

Originally posted by rstrats:
Naomi,

re: “You mean the ability to choose to serve God, rather than my "Old nature" ??”

No. I mean the ability to consciously CHOOSE to believe - convince one’s self without any doubt - that someone or something does or doesn’t exist or that a certain proposition is or isn’t true.


re: “What are you really asking?”

As I’ve said, I have never been able to actually CHOOSE any of the beliefs that I currently hold. Since you say that you can CHOOSE to believe something, I would like to know how you do it. What do you do at the last moment to make your lack of belief in something, instantly change to belief?

re: “Are you wondering about salvation.......”

No, at least not for the purpose of this discussion.

re: “......or if we have a choice in the matter? “

Only if belief is involved with the CHOICE.

rstrats,
You replied:
As I’ve said, I have never been able to actually CHOOSE any of the beliefs that I currently hold.

How did you believe in the current beliefs you hold? Who chose for you?

Like I stated before, I believe that God has placed the reality of who He is, within all of us.
The choice comes in, when we choose to believe that God, our creator, became a man, dwelt among us, became the sacrifice for our sins, and rose again on the third day. When we choose to believe in Jesus, (The real Jesus) and accept the truth that it is finished.....(there is nothing more we could do ourselves)......then we become Born-Again.
Consider the Pharisee's and Saducee's, they obviously believed in God. Yet, Jesus said, Nicodemus needed to be "Born-Again".

You also stated:

I mean the ability to consciously CHOOSE to believe - convince one’s self without any doubt - that someone or something does or doesn’t exist or that a certain proposition is or isn’t true.

I suppose any of us could "convince ourselves" of anything. Yet, time will tell if it is real or not. I used to believe in Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy. Of course, I later learned, they were both my father. I then began to wonder if God also was a phony, so I placed a letter in my drawer that said: "God, if your real, I'll know it, because you will take this letter out of my drawer". Well, the next day, there was the letter, still in my drawer! Yet, I still had no doubt whatsoever about God's existence. Why? I don't know. I just knew it!
As I grew older, I needed to accept the fact that Jesus died in my place. He took my sins. I believed in Him. I believed what He has done for me. I became "Born-Again". It was more than just head knowledge, it was a saving knowledge.

Now, what do you believe?
Naomi

 

[aiki]

rstrats:

I'm still somewhat uncertain as to your exact thinking about how one comes to believe something.

You wrote:

I simply have never been able to actually CHOOSE to believe - convince myself, without having any doubt...

Why do you think that belief must be totally without doubt? I believe many things while still retaining some doubt about them. Hebrews 3:15 - 4:11 suggests that faith is, to some degree, the product of a process that initially requires effort (or "labour"). This effort is, as the above passage implies, the working free of doubt. This doubt does not preclude faith, however; it serves ultimately to strengthen it. This is played out plainly in the process through which one comes to truly believe that they are saved. Doubting they are truly saved, new believers often secretly pray a number of times for salvation. Eventually, as the new believer begins to "reckon" and "stand" on the fact of his/her salvation this doubting is replaced by a confident, peaceful certainty. The labour of faith has entered into rest. This process is repeated many times in the journey toward spiritual maturity (though not concerning the same truth).

The thing about biblical faith is that it is not "I see, so I believe" -- just the reverse. Paul writes that Christians must "walk by faith, not by sight" (2 Cor. 5:7). In other words, "I believe, then I see". This capacity to walk with God this way is, however, ultimately His doing. Every person has been given by God a "measure of faith" (Ro. 12:3) that we exercise toward things both spiritual and not. For instance, I exert faith every time I sit in a chair, or flick a light switch, or take public transit somewhere. I also employ this faith in spiritual ways concerning my salvation, my justification and my identification with Christ.

Faith has been likened to a muscle. Just as a muscle grows stronger and bigger with exercise, so, too, our faith increases as it is exercised. So, while God has imparted faith to each person it remains the role of the individual to develop that faith through use.

rstrats you said:

What do you do at the last moment to make your lack of belief in something, instantly change to belief?

Paul the apostle provides something of an answer to your question in 2 Timothy 1:11:

"...for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that He is able to keep that which I have committed unto Him against that day."

I believe, as this verse suggests, that Christians move from unbelief to biblical faith by way of knowledge, conviction, and action.

Is this what you are getting at? Or am I way off base?

God bless.

[ June 15, 2002, 02:55 PM: Message edited by: aiki ]