-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Repent and repentance in our Bibles.
- Thread starter 37818
- Start date
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
I've never seen a Bible teacher that didn't have enough sense to know that Repentance and Faith are Twin Doctrines.
The article divides them apart and calls others false teachers.
They need to find something else to write about, besides the Bible.
If they are trying to invent a new way of 'salvation', where it is not real and the person hasn't been Granted Rentence toward God and Faith in Jesus, then there won't be repentance that is Spiritually Wrought. And they won't bring forth frith suitable to indicate they have been truly saved (and Granted both Repentance and Faith, simultaneously). I get it.
They just want to tell people to 'believe', to get more numbers of false converts, but if they haven't been ordained to Eternal Life, and been genuinely Granted Spiritual Repentance and Spiritual beliefs and faith, then they just remain lost and deceived.
Acts 26:20 First to those in Damascus and Jerusalem, then to everyone in the region of Judea, ...
... and in all Judea, and then to the Gentiles, I preached that they should repent and ... to God and demonstrate their repentance by their deeds. I preached first to those in Damascus, ...
Acts 26:20 - Paul's Testimony to Agrippa
Acts 11:18 When they heard this, their objections were put to rest, and they glorified God, ...
... , saying, "So then, even to Gentiles God has granted repentance that leads to life ... " When the others heard this, they stopped objecting and began praising God. They said, ...
Acts 11:18 - Peter's Report at Jerusalem
Acts 20:21 testifying to Jews and Greeks alike about repentance to God and faith in our Lord ...
... in our Lord Jesus. I told Jews and Gentiles to turn to God and have faith in ... and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus. ...
Acts 20:21 - Paul's Farewell to the Ephesians
Last edited:
37818
Well-Known Member
I do not think you understand the article.
μετάνοια is the word translated "repentance." It means to "change one's mind."
BTW μετάνοια is not used in the gospel of according to John.
Last edited:
Jeffrey Carr
New Member
Good article. Sets forth the Free Grace position, which I agree with.
The article says repentance is wrongly defined as "sorrow or heart anguish". This is a new one to me.
Sorrow or "heart anguish", if godly, leads to repentance.
Repentance and belief are two sides of the same coin.
Repentance is turning from. Belief is turning to.
It is a change of mind, but in terms of salvation it is a complete change of mind (it is a mind that changes from being set on the flesh to being set on the Spirit).
A knowledge of our sins produces remorse. If godly remorse it produces repentance leading to salvation.
Sorrow or "heart anguish", if godly, leads to repentance.
Repentance and belief are two sides of the same coin.
Repentance is turning from. Belief is turning to.
It is a change of mind, but in terms of salvation it is a complete change of mind (it is a mind that changes from being set on the flesh to being set on the Spirit).
A knowledge of our sins produces remorse. If godly remorse it produces repentance leading to salvation.
And rightly so!
"This change of mind may, especially in the case of Christians who have fallen into sin, be preceded by sorrow (II Corinthians 7:8-11), but sorrow for sin, though it may 'work' repentance, is not repentance."
Sorrow and anguish can lead one towards repentance but by itself is not repentance (is not turning towards).
There is plenty of sorrow and anguish in the Scriptures, there is less repentance (Isaiah 8:21–22).
Rob
atpollard
Well-Known Member
“Often the idea of believing is expressed by the word, repent (Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 8:22; 11:18; 17:30; 20:21; 26:20) … The word means to change one's mind, and by its usage in the Book of Acts it means to change one's mind about Jesus of Nazareth being the Messiah. This involves no longer thinking of Him as merely the carpenter's son of Nazareth, an imposter, but now receiving Him as both Lord (Jehovah) and Messiah. Thus, repentance as preached by the apostles was not a prerequisite to nor a consequence of salvation, but was actually the act of faith in Jesus which brought salvation to the one who repented.” Ryrie, Charles. Biblical Theology of the New Testament. (p. 116, 117).
With all due respect to Charles Ryrie, I have some concerns about how this paragraph from the article is defining “salvation”. The demons have no need to “change their minds” since they KNOW that Jesus is “both Lord (Jehovah) and Messiah” … yet the demons are not saved. It seems to be missing a critical element.
Not “wrong”, just “incomplete” as a working definition.
Romans 10:5-13 [NASB20] 5 For Moses writes of the righteousness that is based on the Law, that the person who performs them will live by them. 6 But the righteousness based on faith speaks as follows: "DO NOT SAY IN YOUR HEART, 'WHO WILL GO UP INTO HEAVEN?' (that is, to bring Christ down), 7 or 'Who will descend into the abyss?' (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead)." 8 But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART"--that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, 9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus [as] Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart [a person] believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE PUT TO SHAME." 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same [Lord] is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; 13 for "EVERYONE WHO CALLS ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."
This paragraph presents salvation as more of a relationship than intellectual accent. Repentance is part of something bigger, more fundamental. I would posit that it is not enough for Jesus to be THE Lord and Messiah, Jesus is MY Lord and Messiah (and I belong to Him).
37818
Well-Known Member
LOL. Jesus being both Lord and Christ has to do with His humanity, as Lord and deity being the Christ. Acts 2:36, Matthew 22:43-44, John 20:28 and Ephesians 5:5. Do a word study on the Lordship of Christ and Christ meaning His deity.
atpollard
Well-Known Member
So much for the power of a direct quote.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
@atpollard I think you missed an important part of the Ryrie comment. "This involves no longer thinking of Him as merely the carpenter's son of Nazareth, an imposter, but now receiving Him as both Lord (Jehovah) and Messiah."
Christ is both Lord & Messiah which the demons know as this is just a fact of their reality thus there was no confusion for them. Repentance is when one that does not know that the carpenter's son from Nazareth is in fact Lord and Messiah and upon hearing and accepting the truth about Him changes their mind and does so.
So Ryrie is not missing a critical element. As he said it is "to change one's mind about Jesus of Nazareth being the Messiah." Although he did not express it as you or I would have he did define it correctly as "now receiving Him as both Lord (Jehovah) and Messiah."
37818
Well-Known Member
So much for the power of a direct quote.
The disagreement is not with Scripture, Acts of the Apostles 2:38, but with Ryrie's teaching on it's meaning.
There are some things I agree with in the article and some things I disagree with. However, what caught my eye (since this is the Bible translation forum) is the following linguistic nonsense:
Things wrong with this paragraph:
1. The author commits the etymological fallacy. A word's meaning only seldom derives from its etymology (historical meaning). Contemporary usage is far more important. The only time etymology is useful in determining meaning is when the word is so rare that we can't find contemporary usages of it.
2. "Meta" (μετά) in Greek never, ever means change. In the first place, "change" is a noun or verb, and meta is a preposition meaning "with" with genitive case nouns, and "after" with the accusative.
3. Therefore, when etymology is referenced for the meaning of metanoia, the usual route is to say it means "to think after."
4. The definitions are also anachronistic. That is, the English word "metamorphosis" has nothing to do with the meaning of the Greek word metanoia, translated "repentance." It even comes from a different Greek word, morpheo, a verb meaning to form something.
I'll just add this. "Repentance" is a good way to translate the Greek, since the English word is somewhat ambiguous. This rendering lets the theologians fight it out rather than the translators! In our Greek version we translated it kuiaratame (悔い改め), which kind of means "regret again," but is a good word for repentance.
Back in the day (first 19th century to early 20th century) there were churches with the teaching that you had to "pray through" to salvation, and show enough tears and sorrow to merit salvation, and they thought that was repentance.
37818
Well-Known Member
"G3341
Original: μετάνοια
Transliteration: metanoia
Phonetic: met-an'-oy-ah
Thayer Definition:
- a change of mind, as it appears to one who repents, of a purpose he has formed or of something he has done"
Original: μετανοέω
Transliteration: metanoeō
Phonetic: met-an-o-eh'-o
Thayer Definition:
- to change one's mind, i.e. to repent
- to change one's mind for better, heartily to amend with abhorrence of one's past sins"
Original: μεταμορφόω
Transliteration: metamorphoō
Phonetic: met-am-or-fo'-o
Thayer Definition:
- to change into another form, to transform, to transfigure
- Christ's appearance was changed and was resplendent with divine brightness on the mount of transfiguration"
37818
Well-Known Member
Trying to unserstand when μετά meaning after would have the meaning of "change." After-with, after-effect.
Good question. Probably just etymology gone wild.
I think the easiest way to learn what repentance is would be to consider the command to set our minds on the Spirit, which is life, rather than on the flesh, which is death.
Repentance is a mind that turns from being set on the things of the flesh to things set on the Spirit (it is walking in the Spirit rather than the flesh).
In military terms it's an "about face".
And godly remorse leads to this repentance as opposed to worldly remorse which leads to regret.
Repentance is a mind that turns from being set on the things of the flesh to things set on the Spirit (it is walking in the Spirit rather than the flesh).
In military terms it's an "about face".
And godly remorse leads to this repentance as opposed to worldly remorse which leads to regret.
Repentance and faith are two principles that are understood better when one knows who is going to the lake of fire as a penalty for their sins.
Re21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
1 John 5:19
And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.
1 Cor 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
Theses are all deeds.
11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
Verses 11 says "NOT GUILTY," and not defined by those awful descriptive terms anymore. Why? Because of repentance.
Repentance has to do with deeds and the conscience and faith has to do with the heart. The judge whose laws have been violated and who finds all men guilty of sin and under the sentence of death is the same judge who has also given him a way to be washed, sanctified, and justified and will declare him without offence if he will react first in repentance before the judge who is offended while at the same time trusting in his provision, which is Jesus Christ, who has endured our sentence of death for our sins.
Here is the way this works and it works every time it is tried and it is the only thing that will work; It was the message to us by our apostle, Paul;
Acts 20:18 And when they were come to him, he said unto them, Ye know, from the first day that I came into Asia, after what manner I have been with you at all seasons,
19 Serving the Lord with all humility of mind, and with many tears, and temptations, which befell me by the lying in wait of the Jews:
20 And how I kept back nothing that was profitable unto you, but have shewed you, and have taught you publicly, and from house to house,
21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.
Two members of the Godhead and two principles of response according to V 21, one to each member, are involved in our salvation and without both there is no salvation, but with both there is no condemnation.
Sins are deeds done in the body.
Last edited: