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Repentance: Do We Still Preach It?
- Thread starter Dr. Bob
- Start date
Craigbythesea
Well-Known Member
No! I preach something more like this:
The words of a fundamentalist from the Methodist persuasion, Adam Clarke
Jack Hyles is at least partly right (and I am no Hyles fan). Repentance is to make a turn about. It is to turn from one's evil life of sin and turn toward a Godly life. It involves a repentance from, and a repentance to; repentance from a wicked life to a repentance to God and the life that He would have us live.
It is impossible to repent from your sins, as many preach. In order to repent from your sins you would have to remember all the sins that you have ever committed, enumerate them all, and then repent from each and every one of them individually. That is impossible for any inidividual to do. We repent from the sinful life that we have been living. We can't repent from our sins. We can't even remember the sins that we have committed, much less repent from them. And then our repentance is toward God.
DHK
It is impossible to repent from your sins, as many preach. In order to repent from your sins you would have to remember all the sins that you have ever committed, enumerate them all, and then repent from each and every one of them individually. That is impossible for any inidividual to do. We repent from the sinful life that we have been living. We can't repent from our sins. We can't even remember the sins that we have committed, much less repent from them. And then our repentance is toward God.
DHK
DeafPosttrib
New Member
Obivously, Hyles and Hutson both preaching 'Easy Believism'.
Yes, I did read Hyles' comment on repentance. I disagree with him.
Also, Dr. Curtis Hutson's comment on repentance in his book 'Salvation Crystal Clear II', it is more far worst than Hyles. He says, repent means change mind. But, not turn from sin.
Late Dr. John R. Rice's define on repentance more correctly, he said, turn from sins, sorrowly toward God for sins, ask forgive sins.
Dr. Rice does not preaching 'Easy Believism'. Dr. Rice preached old fashion gospel, and strongly preach against sins.
I think America's moral value is decling so fast, because of lack preaching on repentance. Preaching on 'Easy Believism' is on the rise rapidly. That why, more Christians easy life and not serious over sins.
Many pastors who is loyal to Sword of the Lord, saying, Late Dr. Curtis Hutson was probably, the clearest preaching on salvation. Well, I think they could be right. But, I think 'Easy Believism' cause America's moral value decline so fast because of lack preaching on repentance.
I know, Dr. Tony Hutson might not like to hear what some Christians who disagree on his father about repentance & salvation.
I dislike Dr. Hyles' attitude for being to be boast over the numbers of souls saved at his church. I read maginaze in Sword of the Lord several years earlier before his death. His church boasted and claim, there were about over 15,000 souls saved during single Sunday service. I do not buy that story. Of course, it could be true, but that is part of 'Easy Believism'.
I remember, when I was a student at Midwestern Baptist College in Pontiac, MI. My old friend as student, he told me, when he was nine years old. He was brought to First Baptist Church in Hammond few miles away from his home in Gary. He was saved and baptized same day, but he does not understand the gospel. Because he said, a man witnessed gospel TOO FAST. He just simple said, 'Yes'while not really understand completely of salvation. He was not really saved. Many years later, he was in Navy in Phillippine Islands. He heard gospel from a missionary. It took more time for him to listen the gospel, then finally understood the gospel, and he accepted Christ saved.
I fear that First Baptist Church of Hammond mislead thousands or millions people of Chicago metro area on 'Easy Believism', allow them going to hell without having serious repentance.
But, not only of that church in Hammond, also, there are so many baptist churches in America are preaching on 'Easy Believism' today.
Many baptist churches need return to old fashion preaching on salvation to emphasis on repentance more clear.
Preaching on repentance always include with revival meetings too.
Bible commands us to repentance according to 2 Peter 3:9. Many of us do not actually repent of our sins. We need to repentance toward God more seriously, because God is holy.
In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
Yes, I did read Hyles' comment on repentance. I disagree with him.
Also, Dr. Curtis Hutson's comment on repentance in his book 'Salvation Crystal Clear II', it is more far worst than Hyles. He says, repent means change mind. But, not turn from sin.
Late Dr. John R. Rice's define on repentance more correctly, he said, turn from sins, sorrowly toward God for sins, ask forgive sins.
Dr. Rice does not preaching 'Easy Believism'. Dr. Rice preached old fashion gospel, and strongly preach against sins.
I think America's moral value is decling so fast, because of lack preaching on repentance. Preaching on 'Easy Believism' is on the rise rapidly. That why, more Christians easy life and not serious over sins.
Many pastors who is loyal to Sword of the Lord, saying, Late Dr. Curtis Hutson was probably, the clearest preaching on salvation. Well, I think they could be right. But, I think 'Easy Believism' cause America's moral value decline so fast because of lack preaching on repentance.
I know, Dr. Tony Hutson might not like to hear what some Christians who disagree on his father about repentance & salvation.
I dislike Dr. Hyles' attitude for being to be boast over the numbers of souls saved at his church. I read maginaze in Sword of the Lord several years earlier before his death. His church boasted and claim, there were about over 15,000 souls saved during single Sunday service. I do not buy that story. Of course, it could be true, but that is part of 'Easy Believism'.
I remember, when I was a student at Midwestern Baptist College in Pontiac, MI. My old friend as student, he told me, when he was nine years old. He was brought to First Baptist Church in Hammond few miles away from his home in Gary. He was saved and baptized same day, but he does not understand the gospel. Because he said, a man witnessed gospel TOO FAST. He just simple said, 'Yes'while not really understand completely of salvation. He was not really saved. Many years later, he was in Navy in Phillippine Islands. He heard gospel from a missionary. It took more time for him to listen the gospel, then finally understood the gospel, and he accepted Christ saved.
I fear that First Baptist Church of Hammond mislead thousands or millions people of Chicago metro area on 'Easy Believism', allow them going to hell without having serious repentance.
But, not only of that church in Hammond, also, there are so many baptist churches in America are preaching on 'Easy Believism' today.
Many baptist churches need return to old fashion preaching on salvation to emphasis on repentance more clear.
Preaching on repentance always include with revival meetings too.
Bible commands us to repentance according to 2 Peter 3:9. Many of us do not actually repent of our sins. We need to repentance toward God more seriously, because God is holy.
In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
I think Hyles and Hutson were trying to refute the obvious by citing the absurd. The obvious is that repentance is definitely a necessary condition for salvation. The absurd is their false definition of repentance which requires one to have knowledge of every single sin they have ever committed and to specifically confess it. By defining "repentance" in such absurd terms, they make it seem silly to require it. Hyles and Hutson were masters of rhetorical tricks for the purpose of manipulating audiences. Too bad they didn't work harder to be theologically accurate. May their influence wane.
Fortunately this sort of easy-believism is not all that common over here. Whilst we get people who claim that they "used" to be a Christian, you will not find many, if any, who claim to be born-again Christians / bible believers etc who don't at least make some attempt to live like it. That's probably why we have so many fewer who claim to be christians over here.
Right now, on an abortion list, I am involved in an ongoing discussion with a lady who claims to believe that the Bible is the infallible word of God yet also believes that abortion and homosexuality and sex outside marriage are fine. Why? Because she prayed about it when she became a Christian and she realised that the Bible doesn't forbid these things because no fallible human being can interpret the bible correctly .... The truth is, of course, that repentance for killing one's own child is an extremely costly thing and she simply does not want to pay the price.
I can see why mega churches use this argument: tell a couple of homosexuals that they will have to repent and they are most unlikely to say the magic words and let you add their scalps to your collection. Get someone to repeat a prayer with about as much sincerity as they might recite a magic spell from a children's fairy story, and you can count their scalp and claim you have won 1000 people for the Lord this year, even if only two of them ever turn up at church.
I have a close friend who was involved in homosexual activity, and the first thing he did after he was converted was to go and see his "friend" and tell him why he would not be doing that any more. Some years later his "friend" was converted too and both of them are now happily married (to women!). That is what we should expect to see, and surely we should preach along the lines of "Yes indeed you will have to be willing to give up that sin but the Lord will give you the strength to do it if you truly turn to Him"
I have been aware of four occasions so far where a couple regularly attending my church (three different churches, in fact) were living together without being married. The first couple, once they became regular attenders, were approached and "invited" to get married, and they did, once their divorces from previous spouses came through ..., the second couple, once they were "invited" to marry, never turned up at church again. The third couple got married (I do not know whether they were approached or not) but were divorced a couple of years later and the fourth couple were not approached but in fact stopped living together of their own accord and remain best friends but no more than that. When asked (during an alpha course group session) if she had repented of sleeping with a man to whom she was not married, the lady of the couple looked at me as if i was insane and replied "no!". But at least they still come.
At the risk of stirring up a hornet's nest, I would love to get into the pulpit for a series of sermons and preach against sin. I'd probably empty the church though, and it wouldn't be because I was a woman preaching ....
Funnily enough at my parents' church (which is the church I mentioned where the two unmarried couples were asked to marry) the Rector ran a series of sermons during Lent this year specifically preaching on moral issues. The odd thing was that he chose to do that not during the morning service where it would have been of some use but during the evening service which has an average attendance of about 8 and an average age of about 70. My parents reported with some amusement the reaction of four couples in their seventies, all of whom were married in the days when sex before marriage just didn't happen, to a sermon telling them all about the dangers of sex before marriage. The general reaction was "we never did it and we told our children not to do it. Why are you preaching to the choir?"
Just ranting ....
Liz
Right now, on an abortion list, I am involved in an ongoing discussion with a lady who claims to believe that the Bible is the infallible word of God yet also believes that abortion and homosexuality and sex outside marriage are fine. Why? Because she prayed about it when she became a Christian and she realised that the Bible doesn't forbid these things because no fallible human being can interpret the bible correctly .... The truth is, of course, that repentance for killing one's own child is an extremely costly thing and she simply does not want to pay the price.
I can see why mega churches use this argument: tell a couple of homosexuals that they will have to repent and they are most unlikely to say the magic words and let you add their scalps to your collection. Get someone to repeat a prayer with about as much sincerity as they might recite a magic spell from a children's fairy story, and you can count their scalp and claim you have won 1000 people for the Lord this year, even if only two of them ever turn up at church.
I have a close friend who was involved in homosexual activity, and the first thing he did after he was converted was to go and see his "friend" and tell him why he would not be doing that any more. Some years later his "friend" was converted too and both of them are now happily married (to women!). That is what we should expect to see, and surely we should preach along the lines of "Yes indeed you will have to be willing to give up that sin but the Lord will give you the strength to do it if you truly turn to Him"
I have been aware of four occasions so far where a couple regularly attending my church (three different churches, in fact) were living together without being married. The first couple, once they became regular attenders, were approached and "invited" to get married, and they did, once their divorces from previous spouses came through ..., the second couple, once they were "invited" to marry, never turned up at church again. The third couple got married (I do not know whether they were approached or not) but were divorced a couple of years later and the fourth couple were not approached but in fact stopped living together of their own accord and remain best friends but no more than that. When asked (during an alpha course group session) if she had repented of sleeping with a man to whom she was not married, the lady of the couple looked at me as if i was insane and replied "no!". But at least they still come.
At the risk of stirring up a hornet's nest, I would love to get into the pulpit for a series of sermons and preach against sin. I'd probably empty the church though, and it wouldn't be because I was a woman preaching ....
Funnily enough at my parents' church (which is the church I mentioned where the two unmarried couples were asked to marry) the Rector ran a series of sermons during Lent this year specifically preaching on moral issues. The odd thing was that he chose to do that not during the morning service where it would have been of some use but during the evening service which has an average attendance of about 8 and an average age of about 70. My parents reported with some amusement the reaction of four couples in their seventies, all of whom were married in the days when sex before marriage just didn't happen, to a sermon telling them all about the dangers of sex before marriage. The general reaction was "we never did it and we told our children not to do it. Why are you preaching to the choir?"
Just ranting ....
Liz
I can confirm what Liz says wrt to the state of Christians in England; at our church the emphasis is on people becoming what our minister calls 'Jesus followers', disciples rather than mere converts. Thus we have had sermons recently on the Rich Young Ruler (Luke 18:18-27) and sexual immorality (I Cor 6:12-20; addressed by our youth worker to the young people in particular)and one from yours truly on works evidencing faith (James 2:14-26), all emphasising how DIFFICULT it is to become a Christian.
Yours in Christ
Matt
Yours in Christ
Matt
A charismatic friend of mine, who dearly loves the Lord Jesus Christ, once told me that repentance is not necessary for salvation, only praying "the prayer". Their church had Tony Zito come to them and teach them about evangelism. That's when he started talking that way. Before that, repentance was something that he believed in.
What were Jesus' first words (that are recorded) when he started his ministry? "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand". And, later, he also said, "Lest ye repent, ye shall likewise perish".
Since Jesus preached repentance, it's good enough for me.
What were Jesus' first words (that are recorded) when he started his ministry? "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand". And, later, he also said, "Lest ye repent, ye shall likewise perish".
Since Jesus preached repentance, it's good enough for me.
Pete Richert
New Member
I believe all sin is some form of unbelief in God and unbelief in God is always demonstrated in real space time as sin, but I digress.
I guess my definition of repetence is different here. I define repetence as realizing your sin is wrong and is deserving of death agaist a Holy God. Repetence is the first step in realizing that you even NEED forgivness. But the power to stop sinning is the next step, via the gift of the Holy Spirit who transfers us into the image of Christ so that we trust and depend on God more and more made manifest in our obedience to His commands. If we had to stop sinning in order to be saved, we would be in serious trouble, since we have no ability whatsoever not to sin without the power of God.
Had a teen once say, "I want to get saved but I don't want to repent of anything."
I told him he was out of luck. To say "I want to . . . " and then lay conditions out (I'll only repent of this or that) would not even get a plea bargain on Law & Order.
It doesn't show "good faith". And repentance is, after all, the flip side of true faith. Turning FROM sin TO Christ.
I told him he was out of luck. To say "I want to . . . " and then lay conditions out (I'll only repent of this or that) would not even get a plea bargain on Law & Order.
It doesn't show "good faith". And repentance is, after all, the flip side of true faith. Turning FROM sin TO Christ.
Craigbythesea
Well-Known Member
Amen!
James_Newman
New Member
God so loved the world that whosoever should repent and show 'good faith' should not perish if they continue in faith and don't sin a whole lot.
Pete Richert
New Member
Nonesense. You can get away with anything on Law and Order. All you have to do is file a motion to dismiss all evidence that makes you look guilty (to as not prejudice the jury) and you will surely get it.
Pete Richert
New Member
What is this talk of good faith and bad faith. There is only one kind of faith, to actually trust God to actually do something for you because you actually need it. I don't know how you can trust God to save you if you don't believe you need to be saved.
Craigbythesea
Well-Known Member
John 3:36. "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him." (NASB, 1995)
I agree, Look at the rich young ruler
The young man said to Him, "All these things I have kept from my youth. What do I still lack.
Jesus said to him, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me." But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions. Matt 19
Remember the man said earlier that he had kept the commandments from his youth up. If you realy
love your neighbor as your self then giving him everything that you own should not be a problem. This man went away unsaved.
James_Newman
New Member
The rich young ruler was saved