Repentance: Do We Still Preach It?

[James_Newman]

Originally posted by TC:
Actually, the rich young ruler was not saved. He was someone under the law, and he was proud of his accomplishments. Also, he was looking for a contract. I.E., he wanted Jesus to guarentee that his good works would get him eternal life. But, Jesus showed him that his righteousness was as filthy rags. He put his wealth before God, so he went away sad.

Ok, so my question still stands: What makes you think that you are in a better position before God than this man? Can any one of us say that since we were saved we have always put God first in all things? Or even most things? Can we really judge this man's heart from 3 lines of text across 2000 years and say that because he didn't give up everything he owned for Jesus that he wasn't saved? What have we not given up for Jesus? Have we ever seen a man that looked like he needed to hear the word, and driven by him because he was also holding out his hand on the street corner? Have we never neglected participating in a ministry or going to church to watch something on television, or go have fun doing some foolish worldly endeavor?

This man says he kept those commandments from his youth up. Jesus didn't correct him, or call him a liar or a hypocrite. I can't even say I've kept them for a year, maybe not even a week. Yet somehow I'm supposed to consider myself more saved than him, because I sin? Or do you now doubt my salvation as well?

 

[Matt Black]

Yes, BUT Jesus goes on to say to him: "One thing you still lack: sell etc". If the man was saved, why did Jesus say he still lacked something?

Yours in Christ

Matt

 

[freeatlast]

The issue of repentance is a serious issue in the life of the church today. Several years ago I sat in a church where a man preached on what repentance was not. I sat there the whole time on the edge of my seat waiting for him to give the punch line and tell what it was, he never did. My guess was that he did not know what it is. Sadly many so called evangelicals are turning from the truth and preaching that repentance is not needed to be saved, but that it comes after salvation. Nothing could be further from the truth!

However I can see how this has gotten started. In a foolish attempt to keep salvation by grace through faith many are changing the message and leaving the people trapped in their lost condition because they leave out repentance. The truth is that many people want a god that accepts them just like they are. The only problem is that they get exactly that, a god of their own choosing. They make god in their own image. The true and living God requires repentance and that without measure. (Jeremiah 29:13)

So the question for today is not only do we need to repent or should we preach repentance but what is repentance? The bible clearly tells us what it is. It is turning to God. (Acts 20:21)
True repentance is not 50%, 75% or 99%. True repentance is when any person makes the decision to turn to God with all their heart and this comes from a broken and contrite heart (spirit). Not any God but the God of the bible. This is done in spirit (heart) and there is no almost turning or conditions that we might tack on the turning. We simply turn. It is a heart that is willing to follow wherever He is leading. The willingness to give up certain things (sins, lifestyle, and so on) is the result of true repentance, but it is not the repentance itself. It is true that we will still fail because the flesh is a strong adversary and seeks to draw us away from what we would , but the Spirit will keep us from practicing what the flesh calls us to once we have been saved. Many people are willing to give up certain things, but the one thing they are not willing to do is to surrender their whole heart mind and soul to God. The giving up of things before the surrender is nothing but works salvation. Yes they believe in God, and they pray a prayer of faith and they believe in Jesus and all that the account tells of Him, but to surrender they will not and they remain trapped in their sins, twice the son's of hell. These are those who we see in the church that end up falling away and claim to be saved but are called backslidden, but they are without salvation.

However we see in the Acts passage that there is one more thing needed. That is faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. That means that we take the heart of repentance towards God and place it on the only person who can save us, the Lord Jesus Christ, and we then become new creations and old things pass away and all things become new. Now we are saved. We from our heart have come to grips with the idea that we are ready to turn to God and have done so in the only manner that He has given and that is by faith and so we have a born again believer that will never perish.

Now that we are really saved we may from time to time sin, but we no longer practice sin as a lifestyle. Our new nature will not permit that and the Spirit we have been given will see to it that we follow our new nature in the practice of righteous living. Yes we battle with sin and from time to time we stumble to it, but because we are surrendered to God in Christ as Lord and Master (repentance) we are lead by the Spirit and now son's of God. (Romans 8:14) There are no exceptions! Glory to God!

 

[gb93433]

Originally posted by freeatlast:
The issue of repentance is a serious issue in the life of the church today. Several years ago I sat in a church where a man preached on what repentance was not. I sat there the whole time on the edge of my seat waiting for him to give the punch line and tell what it was, he never did. My guess was that he did not know what it is. Sadly many so called evangelicals are turning from the truth and preaching that repentance is not needed to be saved, but that it comes after salvation.

Isn't that kind of like telling the man or woman in adultery that they can hang onto their lover and have a successful marriage at the same time?

 

[bonniej]

I haven't seen any postings by women in this study but I'm going to brave it and put in my 2 cents worth. I don't know exactly where the scripture says it but it say to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved. So actually according to that scripture all we have to do is to believe. BUT if we do believe then repent is what we will want to do. I had a discussion recently about what the word repent meant, and did we have to repent of sin in order to be saved. I always thought we did but if all we have to do is believe, then repentence comes after believing. I was told that repentence means change so when you believe in the name of Jesus and you mean it, then you will want to repent. I don't believe the rich young man was saved because his material possessions were more important then following Jesus and yes, it's called total obedience. Would any of us want to give up all of our material possessions? Of course we wouldn't but if you believe on the name of Jesus an felt God was telling you to do that, don't you beieve you would? There's no material possession worth loosing your salvation. The Bible also says it's easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of God. Matt. 19:24 So being rich and having all those material possesions did not buy this young man into the kingdom of heaven. I just looked up Luke 13:3-5 and it says :I tell you No, but unless you repent you will all likewise perish. 4) "Or do you suppose that hose on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killing them, were worse culprits than all the many who live in Jerusalem? 5) I tell you no, but unless you repent you will all likewise perish." So repenting (changing) and believing in Him will give you your salvation. John 3:16 sums it all up " For God so love the world that He gave His only begotton Son that Whosoever BELIEVETH in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
I believe that sums it all up in a nut shell.

 

[Liz Ward]

I'm a woman and I've already posted on this topic

But here I go again .... yes, if someone is truly saved they will WANT to get things right, but there are two problems:

1. Jesus said an awful lot about counting the cost. Can you imagine him telling an adulterer to just believe? The message Jesus always preached was REPENT. Alas many people like to dispensationalize this away.

2. How many people who pray the sinners prayer do you think are actually saved? How do we make an intelligent guess at whether they are saved or not? By their fruits, perhaps?

Can someone who wants to make bargains with God such as "I will do anything you like EXCEPT this one thing" really be saved? I say not.

Last night at church i was talking to a young woman, saved three years ago. She told me that in her first church, she was sleeping with her Christian boyfriend, and no-one thought to tell her that it was wrong. She became a little tearful when i expressed shock. This is a lady who genuinely wanted to serve God, but the church she was in was more interested in being popular. That is sad but, alas, all too common.

Liz

 

[James_Newman]

All this lordship salvation nonsense is destroying the gospel. You people really believe that you can do something to affect salvation? Jesus said believe on Him, why is that so hard to understand? Just because there are conditional warnings and promises in the bible for believers, does not change the first command to an unbeliever which is to believe. You can not turn towards God when you are dead in your trespasses. There is no repentance of an unregenerate man that can cause God to love him more than He ALREADY DID when He sent His son to die for that very sinner.

Romans 5:8
But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

So what is it that saves you? Is it Christ's shed blood that paid the price of your sin? Or is it your repentance which is repugnant in the sight of God if it is not sanctified by the blood.

You sound like a bunch of pharisees, congratulating yourselves for not being like the rich ruler. A Christian doesn't 'practice' sin as a lifestyle, he just enjoys it occasionally and thats perfectly within the bounds of your legalistic works salvation that includes 'repentence' but it's not within Jesus' definition of repentence.

John 8
10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

1John 3
8 [/B]He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Yes, Christian, if you commit sin, you are of the devil. If you are born of God, you don't sin. There is nothing in the bible about 'practicing sin.' I dare say a lot of us probably sin every day. That sounds like practicing to me. Today, we just water down sin and whitewash things that would have made the fathers sick to their stomachs. We go to theaters to watch movies that are full of adultery and murder and are entertained by the stuff in our homes on that big one-eyed idol in our living rooms.
Psalm 101
3 I will set no wicked thing before mine eyes: I hate the work of them that turn aside; it shall not cleave to me.
7 He that worketh deceit shall not dwell within my house: he that telleth lies shall not tarry in my sight.

Jesus absolutely preached repentance, so when are we going to do it and get right with Him? He is coming back soon. But unless you believe on Him, you can't get right with the Son, your still condemned by the Father.

 

[Dr. Bob]

A person unwilling to repent (turn from his old "gods") is unwilling to put 100% faith in Christ (turn to his new "God"). Repentance is the forgotten hallmark of believing.

It would really help if every time you saw the word "believe" (a verb; "faith" is the noun but the exact same Greek root) you consider what it means - total trust. This implies the rejection of any other trust.

No one is saved without repentance. If you think you were, I would absolutely question your salvation and assume it an invalid, misinformed "decision" and not true "conversion".

(Not "you" personally to any on the BB, although . .

)

 

[James_Newman]

Originally posted by Dr. Bob:


It would really help if every time you saw the word "believe" (a verb; "faith" is the noun but the exact same Greek root) you consider what it means - total trust. This implies the rejection of any other trust.

Matthew 6:30
Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?

Matthew 8:10
When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.

I can only assume from your definition of believe that you don't put your seatbelt on when you get in the car. Trusting in God to save you from your sins does not automatically imply that you stop sinning. I don't think anyone has ever argued that it is our sins that are going to save us at the great white throne. How much less will our lack of sin save us at the great white throne?

Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

It's too late to make up for it, Bob. If you truly believed that Jesus paid for your sins, you would not be trying to pay for them yourself.

 

[Plain Old Bill]

Vines shows repentance as a verb,adjective,&noun in five different words with various shades of meaning.
In my heart of hearts repentance, when it comes to salvation means turning from sin in Godly sorrow towards God asking his forgiveness for sins in general,it is impossible for us to know all of our sins or even recognize them as sin before salvation.
Do we preach on repentance in our churches,not often enough.
Do we teach what true repentance is? Not like we should I'll bet.

 

[Plain Old Bill]

Sorry I forgot to include this part in the last entry.
When we do preach or teach on repentance it is more important that we preach it to the right crowd instead of preaching to the chior.

 

[Dr. Bob]

Originally posted by King James Newman:
It's too late to make up for it, Bob. If you truly believed that Jesus paid for your sins, you would not be trying to pay for them yourself.

That is one of the most offensive things I've read, Newman, and violates a number of BB policies.

Are you trying to become a martyr and get suspended? You question my salvation again and your name will be blotted out of THIS book . .

 

[James_Newman]

OOps sorry, I forgot "you" means not you. Anyone else reading this post You can work for your salvation if you want.

That is essentially what you are teaching and if it offends you to hear me say it, then I guess the bible is right when it says the gospel is offensive.

 

[MTA]

Mar 1:14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,
Mar 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Being unable to absolve ourselves of our sin nature does not negate our need to repent. We must have a conscious desire to turn away from our sinful nature and that is what repentance is. This repentance always precedes believing and without it, believing is impossible.

As lost sinners, we embraced the sin in us until we repented and believed. As saved sinners, we abhor the sin that so easily finds its way into our lives. (see Hebrews 12:1).

 

[James_Newman]

A desire to turn from sin will not save you. Turning from sin will not save you. Believing in God will not save you. What saved us is Christ shedding His blood on the cross, as our passover lamb. We apply that blood to the doorpost of our heart by believing it. This is the only way to have our sins covered at the great white throne. Applying commands to believers pertaining to millennial rewards at the judgment seat to an unbeliever for salvation is wrong. You don't have to get cleaned up before you take a bath. You don't have to desire to be clean to realize your dirty. The desire to be saved from the penalty of sin is what leads you to Christ. Realizing that God has placed a penalty on sin that demands your eternal punishment in the lake of fire, and realizing that that is going to happen to you. Then you realize that God made a way for you to escape that punishment. How is that? By repenting and asking Jesus to come into your heart? NO. Jesus DIED ON THE CROSS to save you from the penalty of sin. Why did He do this? Because He loved you WHILE YOU WERE A SINNER. He died FOR sinners. Not just the ones who felt bad about their sin, or the ones who were willing (if not able??) to stop sinning, but ALL of them. All he asks of us is to believe that.

 

[MTA]

A desire to turn from sin will not save you. Turning from sin will not save you. Believing in God will not save you. What saved us is Christ shedding His blood on the cross, as our passover lamb. We apply that blood to the doorpost of our heart by believing it.

Who said anything about repentance alone saving anyone? I certainly did not! However, if you attempt to remove repentance from believing, you will find it to be a fruitless endeavor. They are inseparable.

You don't have to desire to be clean to realize your dirty.

I am not sure what point you are trying to make, but once a person understands they are dirty, (convicted of their sin), they do have that desire to be clean. That desire leads them to repentance and belief in the atoning work of Christ. A person that is oblivious of that fact is content to wallow in their filth, they know no difference. Why can you not see this?

Repenting of our sinful nature is not a presumption that anyone will or can live a sinless life from that point forward. It is a realization of a sinner's complete depravity. Repentance, desiring to turn away from that nature, even though we are powerless to do so, precedes our believing in the only One that can save us.

 

[bonniej]

Originally posted by Liz Ward:
I'm a woman and I've already posted on this topic

But here I go again .... yes, if someone is truly saved they will WANT to get things right, but there are two problems:

1. Jesus said an awful lot about counting the cost. Can you imagine him telling an adulterer to just believe? The message Jesus always preached was REPENT. Alas many people like to dispensationalize this away.

2. How many people who pray the sinners prayer do you think are actually saved? How do we make an intelligent guess at whether they are saved or not? By their fruits, perhaps?

Can someone who wants to make bargains with God such as "I will do anything you like EXCEPT this one thing" really be saved? I say not.

Last night at church i was talking to a young woman, saved three years ago. She told me that in her first church, she was sleeping with her Christian boyfriend, and no-one thought to tell her that it was wrong. She became a little tearful when i expressed shock. This is a lady who genuinely wanted to serve God, but the church she was in was more interested in being popular. That is sad but, alas, all too common.

Liz

I'm sorry Liz, I was so busy reading that I guess I didn't pay attention that there was another woman that had posted. Please forgive me

 

[bonniej]

Originally posted by Dr James Newman:
All this lordship salvation nonsense is destroying the gospel. You people really believe that you can do something to affect salvation? Jesus said believe on Him, why is that so hard to understand? Just because there are conditional warnings and promises in the bible for believers, does not change the first command to an unbeliever which is to believe. You can not turn towards God when you are dead in your trespasses. There is no repentance of an unregenerate man that can cause God to love him more than He ALREADY DID when He sent His son to die for that very sinner.

Romans 5:8
But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

So what is it that saves you? Is it Christ's shed blood that paid the price of your sin? Or is it your repentance which is repugnant in the sight of God if it is not sanctified by the blood.

You sound like a bunch of pharisees, congratulating yourselves for not being like the rich ruler. A Christian doesn't 'practice' sin as a lifestyle, he just enjoys it occasionally and thats perfectly within the bounds of your legalistic works salvation that includes 'repentence' but it's not within Jesus' definition of repentence.

John 8
10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

1John 3
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Yes, Christian, if you commit sin, you are of the devil. If you are born of God, you don't sin. There is nothing in the bible about 'practicing sin.' I dare say a lot of us probably sin every day. That sounds like practicing to me. Today, we just water down sin and whitewash things that would have made the fathers sick to their stomachs. We go to theaters to watch movies that are full of adultery and murder and are entertained by the stuff in our homes on that big one-eyed idol in our living rooms.
Psalm 101
3 I will set no wicked thing before mine eyes: I hate the work of them that turn aside; it shall not cleave to me.
7 He that worketh deceit shall not dwell within my house: he that telleth lies shall not tarry in my sight.

Jesus absolutely preached repentance, so when are we going to do it and get right with Him? He is coming back soon. But unless you believe on Him, you can't get right with the Son, your still condemned by the Father.

You are correct in what you say but you also sound as if a Christian doesn't make mistakes. Just because we are Christians does not make us perfect, in fact the devil is going to be after us all the more because we are God's child. Are we going to fall? You bet we are. It might just be a thought or a word but we all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. and also Romans 3:10 As is it written, There is none righteous not even one. So even when we repent, and ask Jesus to live within us and we believe in is name, we are still oing to do things that are not pleaseing to him. We are to strive to do those things pleasing but we don't always do it. Ever heard the saying "the devil made me do it" Well he does. We sometimes become weak and vunerable for whatever reason and when we do that's when satan attacks. If we are fully aware of what's going on then we can pray and ask God it take it away but satan is so very subtle that he sneaks in when you least expect it and boom, you've done something you should not have, especially as a Christian. We are to be continually repenting because we are not without sin even as a Christian.

 

[James_Newman]

No BA, what I am saying is that the verses that are used to prove that a 'true believer' doesn't 'continue in sin' do not say anything of the sort. They say things like 'whosoever is born of God sinneth not'. The theology that uses these verses to exclude someone from eternal salvation based on their works has excluded themselves. Either we are saved by the work of Christ or we are saved by our works. These people would seem to make it a team effort. We can do nothing to add to the finished work. Simply believing it is all that we can do. Once we believe that we are saved, we can start to try to live right for God, and only once we are saved. Repenting of our sins BEFORE WE ARE SAVED is no more a saving work than is selling all that we have and giving it to the poor and taking up a cross and following Jesus. A dead man cannot take up a cross and follow the Son of God. It is absurd to think that the Lord would tell an unsaved man to do something he could not do.

Once we are saved, we better be obeying the Lord, but thats another thread altogether. Mixing the two will only get you in trouble.

 

[JBE]

Look people, this subject is getting way to emotional and we all know that emotions can be sinful and deceiving. Just because a person does not understand completly or know how to explain completly the salvation process does not mean that a person is not saved. To me that is proof that salvation is the complete work of God,{that a man can't explain it} Including conviction of sin and repentance. Salvation is a supernatural work of God.
--------------------------------------------------
QUOTE; By Dr. James Newman

Yes, Christian, if you commit sin, you are of the devil. If you are born of God, you don't sin. There is nothing in the bible about 'practicing sin.'
-------------------------------------------------

I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5

The bible does talk about practing sin. The key to this whole passage is the word PRACTICE.
Yes christians can commit these sins but they will not live a lifestyle in these sins. This passage does not mean that if you stop committing these sins you will be saved, it means that born again christians will not practice them.

Let's get back to repentance--What is it??

2cor 5:17 is a good picture

Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new

Matt 6:19-21 is a good picture

"Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal; but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

Is 45:22 is a good picture

Look to Me, and be saved,
All you ends of the earth!
For I am God, and there is no other


Repentance comes from the LORD

Acts 11:18

When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, "Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance to life."

2 Tim 2:25

in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth


PLEASE, LET'S NOT BE SO EMOTIONAL