Repentance for Salvation?

[Benjamin]

...Before the cross one had to forgive others in order to be forgiven.
After the cross one should forgive others because God has already forgiven you.

This is but one difference in what some call a "two gospel heresy" even though it is scripturally based.


...I have confidence in the good reader that they can discern which is false teaching (heresy).

What changed was the ministration of the gospel, but it is still the same gospel, (grace through faith) what remains after the New Covenant is this glorious truth.

(2 Corinthians 3:5) Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;

(2 Corinthians 3:6) Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

(2 Corinthians 3:7) But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not steadfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

(2 Corinthians 3:8) How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

(2 Corinthians 3:9) For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

(2 Corinthians 3:10) For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.

(2 Corinthians 3:11) For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.

The OT people could never have been saved by their obedience (Heb 10:4) but were saved by their belief/faith alone, by God’s grace alone.

Yet, we have the word “heresy” flying around by an over ambitious debater trying to pin you on Millennial Exclusion (ME), or Open Theism, or anything else through a play on words and possibly get you kicked off the board for disagreeing with him while he preaches something that amounts to another gospel (two gospels) himself by changing the meaning of “repentance” into a “work” of turning from sin. Now, if I started to label him as a heretic, gave him some of his own medicine, for preaching this LS dogma you can bet he wouldn’t like it one bit, the squealing would begin, and the rule about calling one a “heretic” would soon have to be addressed. Could be interesting for some…but NAH…

You see HankD very thoroughly, gracefully and directly addressed the Op-er and yet he evades “those posts” which I would love to see his responses to, apparently avoided, in order to pick on someone he feels more “inclined” to challenge. Personally, every time I was going to step into this...debate... HankD addressed it more gracefully than I would of, he’s pretty good at that, so I will sit back and observe/learn….thanks Hank.

 

[Benjamin]

Okaaay, one post...sigh...:

Saving faith is to know the grace of God, in that Jesus died for your sins, all of them. Those dudes saying “look at all the wonderful works we did” were counting on their obedience in the law to save them, hoping their display of self righteousness would be impressive, but it was no proof that they had saving faith, it went more to prove they were counting on their works in stead of the atoning sacrifice of the Jesus Christ the Lord who paid the price.

Jesus said, “depart from me, ye that work inequity” which can mean nothing else than that they were working according to the law, but that was the problem, they were under the law according to their faith, rather than having faith in Christ’ grace. They wouldn't have been judged by the law if they weren't under it through belief.

What must one do to be saved? Believe "on" the Lord Jesus Christ. Acts 16:31. Not "cheap" grace at all.

Odd, that so often those that proclaim a monopoly on the phrase ‘grace’ and go as far as calling their doctrine “the doctrine of grace” will also resort to being “fruit inspectors” and “drawing the line” which others can not pass, which goes to show a belief in a works based salvation, yet will say a free will decision to believe in the grace of God is a work.

 

[Havensdad]

Havensdad;
Repentance is a willing change. It's submission. It's surrender. It's giving up the rebellion. There is no Salvation with out repentance. A very necessary change of mind about our rebellion against God.
MB

Very good.:thumbsup:

 

[Havensdad]

{Snipped}

Yet, we have the word “heresy” flying around by an over ambitious debater trying to pin you on Millennial Exclusion (ME), or Open Theism, or anything else through a play on words and possibly get you kicked off the board for disagreeing with him while he preaches something that amounts to another gospel (two gospels) himself by changing the meaning of “repentance” into a “work” of turning from sin. Now, if I started to label him as a heretic, gave him some of his own medicine, for preaching this LS dogma you can bet he wouldn’t like it one bit, the squealing would begin, and the rule about calling one a “heretic” would soon have to be addressed. Could be interesting for some…but NAH…

The difference, of course, is that the board has ALREADY called these positions heretical....

The BaptistBoard.com's Administrative Council has determined that the doctrine referred to as "Millennial Exclusion" falls outside the bounds of traditional orthodox Christain teaching. Therefore, the Administrative Council has deemed this false teaching to be "damnable heresies" (II Peter 2:1), and the has reached the decision to revoke the membership of those who continue to spread this heresy here on the Baptist Board.

Below is a link to a pretty good website that provides the definition of the subject:

AND: if a decision (deciding to turn from sin to Christ) is a work, you are already in trouble: because you make faith just a much a work.


Jesus said, "Unless you repent" (the context was sin...) you will likewise perish."

 

[HankD]

What changed was the ministration of the gospel, but it is still the same gospel, (grace through faith) what remains after the New Covenant is this glorious truth.

(2 Corinthians 3:5) Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;

(2 Corinthians 3:6) Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

(2 Corinthians 3:7) But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not steadfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

(2 Corinthians 3:8) How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

(2 Corinthians 3:9) For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

(2 Corinthians 3:10) For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.

(2 Corinthians 3:11) For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.

The OT people could never have been saved by their obedience (Heb 10:4) but were saved by their belief/faith alone, by God’s grace alone.

Yet, we have the word “heresy” flying around by an over ambitious debater trying to pin you on Millennial Exclusion (ME), or Open Theism, or anything else through a play on words and possibly get you kicked off the board for disagreeing with him while he preaches something that amounts to another gospel (two gospels) himself by changing the meaning of “repentance” into a “work” of turning from sin. Now, if I started to label him as a heretic, gave him some of his own medicine, for preaching this LS dogma you can bet he wouldn’t like it one bit, the squealing would begin, and the rule about calling one a “heretic” would soon have to be addressed. Could be interesting for some…but NAH…

You see HankD very thoroughly, gracefully and directly addressed the Op-er and yet he evades “those posts” which I would love to see his responses to, apparently avoided, in order to pick on someone he feels more “inclined” to challenge. Personally, every time I was going to step into this...debate... HankD addressed it more gracefully than I would of, he’s pretty good at that, so I will sit back and observe/learn….thanks Hank.

No problem. The semantics of the word repentance - "a change of mind" could well be a synonym for the rebirth.

Whenever anyone is born from above he has his mind changed from the adamic mindset to the mind of Christ.

Corinthians 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.​

It is up to us to allow His mind to rule over our thoughts:

Philippians 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:​

2 Corinthians 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;​

HankD​

 

[wfdfiremedic]

Ahhhh. this gets to the heart of MacArthur's "The Gospel According to Jesus" and "Hard to Believe".

 

[wfdfiremedic]

Tell me what do you think of this? I have wrestled with this for months. Play Kirk Cameron interviews MacArthur.



http://www.gty.org/Resources/Videos/INT06

 

[webdog]

Tell me what do you think of this? I have wrestled with this for months. Play Kirk Cameron interviews MacArthur.



http://www.gty.org/Resources/Videos/INT06

Link didn't work for me.

 

[Winman]

Tell me what do you think of this? I have wrestled with this for months. Play Kirk Cameron interviews MacArthur.

http://www.gty.org/Resources/Videos/INT06

That link worked for me, but I don't have time to listen to it now.

What specifically have you wrestled with for months?

 

[wfdfiremedic]

Hmmmm. it worked for me.

 

[wfdfiremedic]

That link worked for me, but I don't have time to listen to it now.

What specifically have you wrestled with for months?

Ah....listen to MacArthur's message brother.. To put it simply, MacArthur does not believe in simply confessing Christ as Saviour and then saying that one is eternally saved. He believes in Lordship salvation which equates to obedience and Perserverance of the Saints. Note: He is a Calvanist in some regards.

 

[wfdfiremedic]

Here is another sermon for deep thought: VERY DEEP THOUGHT IN THIS.



http://www.desiringgod.org/ResourceLibrary/MediaPlayer/2707/Video/

 

[Havensdad]

Ah....listen to MacArthur's message brother.. To put it simply, MacArthur does not believe in simply confessing Christ as Saviour and then saying that one is eternally saved. He believes in Lordship salvation which equates to obedience and Perserverance of the Saints. Note: He is a Calvanist in some regards.

Good for him. Salvation is not just confessing Christ. Salvation is turning from yourself, the world, and sin (repentance) TO Christ in faith.

Lordship Salvation does indeed teach that a Christians life will be one of obedience; a result of salvation. Anything less is not the Gospel.

And...the message is spot on. Not the first time I listened to it, though.