Repentance needed for Salvation?

So what you are saying then is that we are saved because we repented?

It that is a correct a summation of what you stated, I disagree... respectfully.

 

Mat 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

Repentence is the act of deciding which master you will serve. For the rich young ruler, the price was too high and he refused to repent and accept Christ's offer of salvation.

 

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genesis12 quote

Or.... I become aware of my sinful estate through a movement of the Holy Spirit. Under conviction, I grieve. I thank God for His revelation of Himself to me. I say "Come into my heart, Lord Jesus." Whether I repent and turn (get convicted and ask Him in) or turn and repent (grieve and ask Him in) is six of one and half-dozen of the other. In either case I become a child of His, and that is cause for rejoicing, not cause for debate. The JOY now present in my life ends all questioning. It is time now to grow in His knowledge, wisdom, and strength, setting aside all childish arguments about HOW He became so real to me.

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AMEN

 

gekko quote
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one thing I want to add - and ask - Do we deserve God's forgiveness?
do we deserve God's forgiveness if we ask for it?
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NO it wouldn't be grace if we deserve it.

 

Act 26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

Here the order seems to be to admit ourselves as sinners and turn from our sin, turn to God and then do good works.

Not to go off thread, but it may bring out something from the Calvinist side, how do you treat God's repentance?

For example, the repentance of the people of Nineveh brought about a repentance on the part of God. Very often in the OT we find God "Repenting" of a particular action.

The non-Calvinist would see this as God treating people based upon their recieving or rejecting His Word(not upon their works or any other reason).

Now, don't attack me or claim I don't believe in God's Soveriegnty. Don't accuse me of not understanding the Word or not having studied enough. Simply tell what your understanding of God's repetance is.

It is not my intention to go off topic, but perhaps this will help with the general theme of the thread.

 

Again why is it that we just can't simply allow Scripture to speak for itself. If repentance was needed for salvation then why doesn't Acts 16:30-31 include believe and repent? Why doesn't Ephesians 2:8-9 say by grace through faith and repentance?

The repentance spoken of in the Gospel accounts and at least the early chapters of Acts is a national repentance. So does the entire USA have to repent before one can be saved?

 

Acts 3:19: Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out.

Mark 6:12, instructs His disciples to tell people to repent.

Luke 13:3, "... but except you repent, you will all likewise perish..."

Luke 17:3, Jesus states that forgiveness depends on repentance.

Acts 26:20, Paul is preaching repentance to King Agrippa, regarding all the people he has spoken to, not simply 'nations.'

 

Repentance and faith are two sides of the same coin. They can't be separated.

 

Deciding what Master to serve? A slave has no say in who its master is. they are bought and sold. Our western idea of what freedom is has changed from the eastern idea. The Scriptures articulate that we are slaves to sin and even Satan himself. Repentence is the visable effect that our ownership has changed from what we were born into to God. Repentance is also the outward evidence that a life has already been transformed. From our persepctive we see the shift in the pratical elements of the life. The concept of repentence is actually finds its meaning in a term that was used in the Roman legions. A rough equivolent would be our "about face, forward march." It is a practical turning away from the nature of sin that we inherit and toward the nature of Christ.

I cannot change my nature... therefore I cannot repent apart the ability being imputed to me and causing me to do so. I would suggest reading the account of the rich young ruler (Luke 18) and Zachaeus (Luke 19) together and determine just when Zachaeus was "saved."

 

I totally agree! :thumbs:

 

The Rich Ruler

Luk 18:22 Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.
Luk 18:23 And when he heard this, he was very sorrowful: for he was very rich.

This is where he was lost, when he decided that his money was more important to him than following Christ.

Luk 18:24 And when Jesus saw that he was very sorrowful, he said, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!


Zacchaeus

Luk 19:5 And when Jesus came to the place, he looked up, and saw him, and said unto him, Zacchaeus, make haste, and come down; for to day I must abide at thy house.
Luk 19:6 And he made haste, and came down, and received him joyfully.
Luk 19:7 And when they saw [it], they all murmured, saying, That he was gone to be guest with a man that is a sinner.
Luk 19:8 And Zacchaeus stood, and said unto the Lord; Behold, Lord, the half of my goods I give to the poor; and if I have taken any thing from any man by false accusation, I restore [him] fourfold.

This is where he was saved, when he decided to accept Christ's offer of salvation and demonstrated that he was truely changed (born again). Christ states this in the very next verse.

Luk 19:9 And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham.

 

Because once someone is saved eternally then there is the saving of the soul which includes faith and works. Context is everything and these two messages have to be kept separate if one is going to understand what the Bible is speaking about. Let context tell you what is being spoken of.

If anything is added to faith and believe (same thing just one is a noun and one is a verb) then it is NOT speaking of eternal salvation or that passage contradicts Ephesians 2:8-9, Acts 16:30-31 and Romans 4.

If it is believe + something or faith + something then eternal salvation is not the context.

But there is nowhere in the Bible that speaks of a repentant faith. It's just faith. Faith and repentance are not the same thing. And they are not different sides of the same coin as was mentioned earlier.

They are two totally different things.

[/quote]ephesians two is talking to christians who are already saved (which includes repentance)[/quote]

Exactly. And it tells them how they were saved. They were saved by grace through faith apart from works. There is no mention in there of repentance at all. We can not add to what Scripture says. It says plainly they were saved by grace through faith apart from works.

That's what the Bible says, so it works for me!

Sure they can. We have an example of it, becuase Jesus called Peter Satan because Peter was thinking along the same lines as Satan was thinking.

Not at all. That would be serving one master. It is impossible to serve two masters. You are either serving God, or you are serving yourself, the flesh or Satan. But never both at the same time.

When you and I sin we are NOT serving God.

For some it's not. For some repentance comes right after the moment of eternal salvation, but for others there is a wilderness journey before repentance takes place.

Repentance is about following Christ in discipleship. Not all believers do that at the same time.

I would absolutely agree with that statement, but sanctification and eternal justification are not the same thing. Sanctification comes AFTER eternal salvation. It is not a one-time event like eternal salvation. Sanctification is a life-long process should we allow the Spirit to work in us. And if we do then at the end of our faith our souls will be saved. If we do not then we will lose our souls for the 1,000-year kingdom of Christ.

But yes the church is rapidly moving away from teaching the flock that we need to live faithful lives. And it truly is sad!

 

AMEN! Most people want to have an easy trip to Heaven. There is no such thing. There is a high cost of following Jesus.

Luk 14:27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.
Luk 14:28 For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have [sufficient] to finish [it]?
Luk 14:29 Lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish [it], all that behold [it] begin to mock him,
Luk 14:30 Saying, This man began to build, and was not able to finish.
Luk 14:31 Or what king, going to make war against another king, sitteth not down first, and consulteth whether he be able with ten thousand to meet him that cometh against him with twenty thousand?
Luk 14:32 Or else, while the other is yet a great way off, he sendeth an ambassage, and desireth conditions of peace.
Luk 14:33 So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.
Luk 14:34 Salt [is] good: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be seasoned?
Luk 14:35 It is neither fit for the land, nor yet for the dunghill; [but] men cast it out. He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

 

I don't think it's either for believers.

The world may be on a battleship at the gates of hell, but believers, though here in the world, are in the safe harbor of Jesus Christ. We are commanded to be alert, vigilant, and to grow in Christ (yes, that's a command) but we are not at the gates of hell in the sense that we are about to or can slip into it.