Repentance needed for Salvation?

Which part?
Luke 19:10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

 

The whole part.

This in no way proves that Israel was "unsaved" and headed for hell as you suggest. This just tells us who the Son of man came for and what He came to do.

But you can not add the conclusion that Israel was unsaved and that Christ came to save them from eternal hell. That's not in this verse.

So I look forward to seeing Scripture evidence that Israel was unsaved and bound for everlasting punishment in hell and that Jesus came to save them from that.

 

Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Can Israel be in the book of life without Christ?

 

Again this doesn't prove your point. You said that lost equalled unsaved or spirtually dead. Where are your Scripture passages that make that connection?

If Israel was in a spiritually dead state then how were the "expected" to respond to a spiritual message that was a message other than eternal salvation.

Christ hadn't even died at that point and hadn't even told anyone He was headed to the cross.

There are just so many things that contradict the traditional teachings people, including myself, have grown up with.

 

Will any man be in heaven who made it another way outside of Christ? Outside of the Gospel?

 

Yeah there will be a bunch of saved people that never accepted Christ as Savior, because that wasn't what they were asked to believe in. Abraham was saved in Genesis 15, but there is no mention of Christ or His death and shed blood.

The entire nation of Israel was saved in Exodus 12 and there is no mention of Christ and His shed blood. There is a great picture of His death and blood, but we have no indication that the Israelites knew that.

The disciples followed Christ, which is something that happens AFTER eternal salvation, and followed Him quite a while before they believed anything about His death if they ever really comprehended it at all. I think it would be pretty safe to say that a number of them had no idea what was going on or meant by His death. They certainly didn't believe in the resurrection until after it happened.

People could only believe in the death and shed blood of Christ after it happened. And it is only required of those that are post cross.

Now His blood certainly goes back to those in the OT and those saved prior to His death and shed blood, but they were asked to believe in something else for salvation.

On a side not heaven is not the ultimate prize in eternal salvation. Christians dying or be raptured to reside in heaven for eternity is a church tradition that has been passed on for no telling how long that is as incorrect and the earth is flat. We are not going to reside in heaven for eternity. Our time in heaven will actually be relatively short.

 

So what's after heaven in your view?

 

We will return with Christ and those found faithful, obedient and overcoming with rule and reign with Him for 1,000 years, after which the kingdom will be returned to the Father and we will reside on earth in the presence of God for eternity.

 

One thing regarding OT patriarchs looking to Christ,
John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

 

Did you bother to read all the scripture I posted? What are you going to call your new religion?

 

'Nother nice ad hominem free shot. Perhaps you might post what I referred to, namely that the words "repentant faith" are nowhere found in Scripture. And lest any be confused, I certainly believe that 'repentance' is a valid term regarding salvation. However, the repentance i.e. metanoia of the NT is never said to be 'repentance of or from sin(s).' Nor are the verb repent (metanoeo) or the noun repentance (metanoia) ever used as an adjective, as far as I'm aware, as in "repentant faith", much less as I also mentioned, as a Biblical definition of sanctification.

Yes, I read all the Scripture you posted. And as I also posted, discipleship is not said to be the same as salvation. You are correct in that I do not believe in "Lordship salvation". but you are mistaken in what I believe, for that I also believe that after one receives the gift of God, i.e. salvation, following this, it is 'expected' that one will grow as a disciple, and that is the Biblical norm. That this does not always happen to the degree that we would like is deplorable. I haven't arrived totally here yet. Anyone else must speak for him or herself. Personally, I'll let John speak for me on this one in I John 1:5-10 (NKJV).

I'm not particularly into making God a liar, and kinda' like the idea of the truth being in me. Any others can do as they please.

Ed

 

Friend, I never accused you of anything! The OP's question was is "Is repentance needed for salvation?" Yes it is is what I said. Jesus preached repentance according to Matt. 4:17. You said:

I beg to differ. Jesus said:

"Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you."-Lk. 17:21

The way I see this verse, once you repent, the kingdom of God comes to you.

From John Gill's Commentary on the Whole Bible:

"for behold the kingdom of God is within you:
in the elect of God among the Jews, in their hearts; it being of a spiritual nature, and lying in righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost; in the dispossession of Satan, the strong man armed; in the putting down of the old man, sin, with its deceitful lusts, from the throne; and in setting up a principle of grace, as a governing one; and so escapes the observation of natural men, and cannot be pointed at as here, or there: hence it appears, that the work of grace is an internal thing; it is wrought in the hearts of men; it has its seat in the inward parts, and is therefore called the inner, and the hidden man: it does not lie in words, in an outward profession of religion: it is oil in the vessel of the heart, and is distinct from the lamp of a visible profession; it does not lie in external works and duties, but it is an inward principle of holiness in the soul, or spirit of man, produced there by the Spirit of God, and is therefore called by his name, (John 3:6) and it also appears to be a very glorious thing, since it is signified by a kingdom: it is a rich treasure; it is gold tried in the fire, which makes rich; it is an estate, that good part, and portion, which can never be taken away; it is preferable to the greatest portion on earth men can enjoy; even the largest and richest kingdom in the world is not to be compared with it; it is a kingdom which cannot be moved; and as it is glorious in itself, it makes such glorious who are partakers of it: "the king's daughter is all glorious within", (Psalms 45:13) and it is high in the esteem of God; it is the hidden man of the heart, but it is in his sight; it is in his view, and is in his sight of great price: it is likewise evident from hence, that it has great power and authority in the soul; it has the government in it; it reigns, through righteousness, unto eternal life; and by it, Christ, as king of saints, dwells and reigns in his people. Now this is not to be understood of the Scribes and Pharisees, as if they had any such internal principle in them, who were as painted sepulchres, and had nothing but rottenness and corruption in them: but the sense is, that there were some of the people of the Jews, of whom the Pharisees were a part, who had been powerfully wrought upon under the ministry of John, Christ, and his apostles; and were so many instances of efficacious grace, and of the kingdom of God, and of his Gospel coming with power to them. Though the words may be rendered,

the kingdom of God is among you;
and the meaning be, that the king Messiah was already come, and was among them, and his kingdom was already set up, of which the miracles of Christ were a full proof; and if they could not discern these signs of the times, and evident appearances of the kingdom of God among them, they would never be able to make any observation of it, hereafter, or elsewhere."

http://bible.crosswalk.com/Commenta...ok=lu&chapter=017&verse=021&next=022&prev=020

So I am of the opinion that, Yes repentance is needed for salvation.

From our Lord's own words:

"I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish."-Lk. 13:3

 

Deacondean, I thought you were leaving and "never coming back". Change your mind?

 

This sure sounds an awful lot like an accusation:

He absolutely preached repentance. But the question is what did He preach repentance in relation to? You say repentance in relation to eternal salvation, but the Bible says He preached repentance in relation to the kingdom of heaven/God. Again eternal salvation and the message of the kingdom are two totally different things.

Nowhere in Scripture is repentance tied to eternal salvation or Ephesians 2:8-9, Acts 16:30-31 and Romans 4 are all three lies and we know that is an impossibility.

Not so because this is actually addressed to "unprentant" pharisees of the day. The better translation is the kingdom of God is in your midst, not actually inside the person. The kingdom that Christ preached is a literal kingdom. It is a sphere of rule not something that goes inside a person.

The kingdom that Christ preached was not set up at that time. It was an offer to set up the kingdom, but they rejected the offer and the kingdom has yet to be set up, becuase Christ is currently our High Priest not the Ruler over the nations.

Again you would be absolutely correct if you are speaking about kingdom salvation, but the Bible just doesn't support repentance for eternal salvation or you have a works based salvation.

Again who was addressed? What is the context? Jesus is speaking to redeemed people, so eternal salvation is not in context.

 

It is the 1,000-year reign of Christ. When comparing Scripture with Scripture it makes it clear that the 1,000-year reign of Christ is the only thing that can be in view.

Because of the time frame. It has a distinct beginning (when Christ returns to rule and reign) and it has a distinct ending (when Christ delievers the kingdom back to the Father and the throne becomes the throne of God and the Lamb).

Hope that helps.

 

When the Bible says:

Luk 13:5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

how can you interpret that as decipleship? Salvation is required to prevent us from perishing (going to Hell). This verse says if you don't repent you will perish. Repentence is required for salvation at least according to the Bible.

 

I hope he has changed his mind and stays.

 

Not really Gekko, because eternity has not reference to time. Eternity is really outside of time.

Man's Age consists of 6,000 years and then you have the Lord's Age which consists of 1,000 years. Those are two distinct and different ages from themselves and from eternity.

There are a number of folks that tie the 1,000-year kingdom into eternity, but the problem is that if the kingdom is eternity then you are going to have saved individuals that will be wailing and gnashing their teeth for eternity, which is not possible, becuase God said He was going to wipe away all tears. So the wailing and gnashing of teeth is going to stop. It will last 1,000 years and then God will wipe away all tears before we step into eternity.

Hope that makes sense.

Here is a graphic that may help. I am much more of a visual person myself.