Repentance

huh!...............?

 

I don't mind telling you what repentance is. It is to turn from your sins, but it entails more than just turning. There must be some sorrow there that caused you to turn. If you never become sorry you sinned against God, you will die and go to a devil's hell, for without the sorrow, you will never do anything about the condition you are in. IMO

 

Looking back at the day God saved me as a 9-year-old, I now have a better idea of what was involved. That's because over the years, the scriptures have explained it to me. Those were scriptures I knew nothing about at the time.

I had heard a lot of sermons, but none of them registered with me until that day. I now know that it was the Holy Spirit who opened my mind and my spiritual eyes so that suddenly I saw my sin as God sees it. Rebellious, detestible, horrorible, came to my mind. It scared the living daylights out of my. I am an awful sinner, and those sermons on Hell flooded into my memory. So did those sermons on repentance and faith, and salvation from sin. When I reached my pastor at the front, he started asking me questions:

Do you understand that you are a sinner? Yeessss. (Through tears)
Do you understand that the penalty for sin is Hell? Yeeesss.
Do you understand that only Jesus can save you? Yeeesss

Do you understand that Jesus died on the cross to pay that penalty for sin? Well, yes, I understand a little about that.

Are you sorry for your sins and do you want to trust Christ for your salvation?
Uh-hunnnh. (sniff).

Here's my point: When the Holy Spirit reveals to a sinner about his sin, his sinfulness and all that goes with it, and does His convicting work, it would be natural to recoil from it. That's the godly sorrow. When one is pointed toward Christ as the only hope and he believes, it seems to me that repentance and faith are both involved--two sides of the same coin, so goes a common saying.

Another way of saying it, when one turns to Christ in faith for salvation, he is by definition turning away from something else.

I am convinced that any witnessing that calls for faith only without reference to one's sins and the necessity of turning from them, is not only incomplete--it is false and dangerously so. Sinners must hear the bad news before they are ready to hear the good news.

 

1. But how could this rebellious mind not involve sin?

2. What was the nature of your rebellion, if not in sin?

3. It is therefore difficult to separate repentance from sin.

 

Now, I got you. This is essentially the sum and substance of my own view.

 

yes, all who come to Jesus, which the thief did, have been taught of the Father.

 

Can I be your financial planner? JK :laugh:

 

You were not sorry that you had sinned against God? I have never heard or known anyone to repent without being sorrow for sinning against God. You just changed for no reason huh?

Hbr 12:17For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.

 

I told you we are not naive either, you ever try to get money out of an old person? "hey son, earn your own, I had to walk 10 miles to school every day and it was uphill both ways." Plagiarism, I be in trouble with Rippon, shhhh!..............:laugh:

 

lol oh well, can't blame a guy for trying.

 

One that does not repent believes that their life is acceptable as it it. The Word of God records and gives to us this communication...repent of your sins and be saved, repent and be saved.

Obviously the word repent is the issue at hand. High drama is introduced and people get off course. Whatever the word repent conjures up in people's minds hopefully it is challenge by its use.

One is to dispose of the belief that their life is acceptable as it is, hence repent or repent of your sins. Yet that is not enough, one must then be saved. Salvation is through Christ and nothing else.

Your life is one of unrighteousness and you are in need of the righteousness of Christ. If one believes their life of unrighteousness is in fact, not a life of unrighteousness then obviously they cannot be saved since they do not see a need for a Savior. Therefore the imperative to all is given to repent or repent of your sins, to dispose of the erroneous belief that your life is acceptable in its unrighteous state and be saved...receive the righteousness of Christ...be saved from the judgment of your unrighteousness. The gospel again, plain and simple.

 

I agree with your definition.

Question: If I were a drunkard, I went through the above "change of mind" would I still be a drunkard? If I say I went through the above process but am still a drunkard, did I really go through the above process?

As a man thinketh, so is he. I don't believe one can willfully turn toward God (Rom 12:1,2) yet continue to demonstrate carnal obedience on the outside.

To clarify my position, I am not saying one has to repent to be saved for salvation is by grace through faith. I am saying a saved man will repent. For the goodness of God leadeth us to repent. Repenting is not listing sin's one by one, you are repenting from a way of life. A life without Christ.

Now let's put this in perspective which means through prayer on this subject I have made some consessions, when a man is first dunked (simple analogy for saved) we all know at that exact moment of time he has not completely changed. He has only committed before God and Men to put their life in Jesus hands. Their mind has not changed, it is committed to the process of changing. They are a baby with Christ, need milk, need to learn to crawl before walking, etc... (Heb 5:13,14 & 1 Pet 2:1,2). For this reason Peter said folks new to Christ should not be put in leadership or teaching positions in the Church. We need to let them mature and demonstate their walk first. (sorry, I can't recall this verse but will look for it later).

The other end of the Christian walk, is one whose mind has changed, eat's stong meat, knows the ways of righteousness etc... This I will call the perfecting process for the sake of discussion. None of the sin doers you listed in the other thread are in this catagory.

I have to also concede there is no set timeframe from when one dunked to the point of perfection/spiritual maturity. We know Christ is working with and in their heart, sometimes chastising, sometime rewarding, but they are primarily growing as saints... Will they willfully commit the sin's you mentioned after committing to a change of mind???

Now watch these scriptures...

2 Thessalonians 3:14 And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed.
15 Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.


2 Peter 2:10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.
11 Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.
12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;
13 And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;
14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:
15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;
16 But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet.
17 These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.
18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.
19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

This is why I say not all AT the Church is in the Church. In the other thread and this discussion, you want us to decide who is saved or not. I can't do that. i don't know the condition of Ananias security but you made assumptions that were not written in Acts. I don't want to judge him, Lot or anyone...

I believe in eternal security and don't see a saved man going to hell. Yet Peter makes it plain there are some walking with the saints who are on the express train to a fate, "For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them"...

I say they were never saved to begin with but others might say they were saved and lost their salvation. Either way, don't expect to see them in heaven.

 

I question the statement that Ananias and Sapphira were saved. I believe they crept in unawares at that time for selfish gain.

All in Acts 4 were in one accord and agreed nothing was theirs. They sold and brought all the money and laid it at the apostle's feet.

Next chapter we see the deceitful duo lying to the Holy Ghost because of their selfish greed. They were not of the same mind as those in the previous chapter.

I do not believe they were saved.

 

This only makes sense if they were trying to benefit from what others were selling. Maybe that's true, but the Bible doesn't tell us either way. They couldn't have crept in for selfish gain if all they had to gain was the money they got for their own property. They sold their propery and kept back only SOME of the money. If they wanted more money, they didn't have to pretend to be converted - they could have simply stayed away from the Christians and kept it ALL for themselves.

 

Let's look briefly at the passages preceding Ananias and his wife lying to the Holy Ghost, shall we?

I bolded the parts that seem the most telling to me. 'As many as were possessors of land... sold them... brought the prices...' As many tells me that all of those who were among them brought the full price.

Next chapter starts with, 'But, a certain man...sold a possession...kept back part of the price.' He was not part of the 'As many' in the previous chapter. He, and his wife had tried to fool Peter and lied to the Holy Ghost in the process.

Back up to verse 32 of chapter 4:

All there had agreed that none of those things in their possession was his own. Ananias had a different mindset than the group in Acts 4.

 

That's why I didnt answer this in the other thread, I don't believe in judging my fellow man. I do agree with your assessments though... Would a person with a changed mind, a mind turned toward Godliness try to deceive the holy spirit???

 

Reckon I stuck my neck out. Oh well...

Chop away, DHK. (But I gotta warn ya, I'm a tough old bird)