buckster75
Member
isn't there a verse that says if you could lose salvation that it would be imposible to get it back because Christ would have to be crucified again?
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And have you not sinned one sin from the beginning of your salvation (or whatever you call the experience)?
How many apples on a tree does it take to prove that it is an apple tree?
How many sins does it take to make one a sinner?
Your knowledge of the Greek participles proves little IMO. Doc T is correct, participles are more akin to a state of being than a fluid or punctiliar state especially the past participle.
I am free from sin, totally and completely having been born of God. The flesh me, well that's another story because he was a sinner from the beginning. He has often revived and rattled his chain but I have the witness within myself that I have eternal life.
It is impossible to convince me otherwise because of His word which I can only repeat.
John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
Why is it impossible?
My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
This assurance goes far deeper than my faith in His Word but includes an assurance which comes from God Himself.
NKJV Romans 8:16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God.
HankD
Craigbythesea
Well-Known Member
RightFromWrong wrote,
What kind of bizarre nonsense is this! God is NOT blind! If a Christian sins, God sees that sin! And we know from the Word of God for an absolute fact that He sees that sin because the Word of God tells us that God chastens those who sin as a father chastens His children to bring them to repentance. And in Revelation 3:19 we find this written of Christians:
Rev. 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
As for Gal. 2:20,
Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
you have totally misunderstood Paul! He writes that he is CRUCIFIED WITH CHRIST. Dead people do not sin for they CANNOT sin! Paul’s old nature was by faith nailed to the cross and it was DEAD allowing Christ to live through him and Christ does not sin!
Compare Rom. 6,
1. What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase?
2. May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?
3. Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?
4. Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.
5. For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection,
6. knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin;
7. for he who has died is freed from sin.
8. Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him,
9. knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, is never to die again; death no longer is master over Him.
10. For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.
11. Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.
12. Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts,
13. and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.
14. For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
15. What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be!
16. Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?
17. But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed,
18. and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.
19. I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness, resulting in further lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness, resulting in sanctification.
20. For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness.
21. Therefore what benefit were you then deriving from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the outcome of those things is death.
22. But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit, resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life.
23. For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Being dead to sin is not just some abstract theological jargon—it is a day by day reality for those who believe in Christ and what he accomplished for them on the cross. It has nothing to do with works; it is all about the grace of God that we receive by faith.
Dear brother,
What kind of bizarre nonsense is this! God is NOT blind! If a Christian sins, God sees that sin! And we know from the Word of God for an absolute fact that He sees that sin because the Word of God tells us that God chastens those who sin as a father chastens His children to bring them to repentance. And in Revelation 3:19 we find this written of Christians:
Rev. 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
As for Gal. 2:20,
Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
you have totally misunderstood Paul! He writes that he is CRUCIFIED WITH CHRIST. Dead people do not sin for they CANNOT sin! Paul’s old nature was by faith nailed to the cross and it was DEAD allowing Christ to live through him and Christ does not sin!
Compare Rom. 6,
1. What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase?
2. May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?
3. Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?
4. Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.
5. For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection,
6. knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin;
7. for he who has died is freed from sin.
8. Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him,
9. knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, is never to die again; death no longer is master over Him.
10. For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.
11. Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.
12. Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts,
13. and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.
14. For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
15. What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be!
16. Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?
17. But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed,
18. and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.
19. I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness, resulting in further lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness, resulting in sanctification.
20. For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness.
21. Therefore what benefit were you then deriving from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the outcome of those things is death.
22. But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit, resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life.
23. For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Being dead to sin is not just some abstract theological jargon—it is a day by day reality for those who believe in Christ and what he accomplished for them on the cross. It has nothing to do with works; it is all about the grace of God that we receive by faith.
R
RightFromWrong
Guest
buckster75 Wrote isn't there a verse that says if you could lose salvation that it would be imposible to get it back because Christ would have to be crucified again?
Yeah that would be Hebrews 6:4-6
I tried expalaing this vese before and seems no one got it. But you said it right that is what it means.
Yeah that would be Hebrews 6:4-6
I tried expalaing this vese before and seems no one got it. But you said it right that is what it means.
Craigbythesea
Well-Known Member
RightFromWrong wrote,
Heb. 6:4. For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
5. and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
6. and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.
7. For ground that drinks the rain which often falls on it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God;
8. but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned. (NASB, 1995)
Some scholars take the word “impossible” in verse 6 to be hyperbolic, but I believe that is stretching things a bit.
Regarding the book of life, the Word of God is true and sure! Those Christians who do not overcome temptation but who become entangled in sin shall have their names blotted out of the book of life, and there is no mention of the names being written back in.
Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. (KJV, 1769)
Buckster75 wrote,
If a Christian falls from grace and looses his salvation, it is a permanent loss. We can only be saved once.
Heb. 6:4. For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
5. and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
6. and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.
7. For ground that drinks the rain which often falls on it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God;
8. but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned. (NASB, 1995)
Some scholars take the word “impossible” in verse 6 to be hyperbolic, but I believe that is stretching things a bit.
Regarding the book of life, the Word of God is true and sure! Those Christians who do not overcome temptation but who become entangled in sin shall have their names blotted out of the book of life, and there is no mention of the names being written back in.
Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. (KJV, 1769)
buckster75
Member
So it has to be an end to the church cuz if a christian ever was to sin again no use in going back to church he can never be saved again.
Craigbythesea
Well-Known Member
This statement is absolutely and incontrovertibly false! Every first year Greek student knows that the Greek participle does not indicate an on-going action, but rather an enduring state (it is said to be in the stative aspect). </font>[/QUOTE]Do you know Greek grammar yourself, or are you just believing what some knucklehead had to say? Do you know what part of tense is meant by the word “aspect”? Are you even aware that participles are verbal adjectives expressing action? Let’s be careful what we post!
R
RightFromWrong
Guest
Yeah Craig I guess Gods word in total NONSENSE the book of Romans shows our condition before we are saved, when we get saved and after. You should study it.
The Bible teaches that God "justifies the ungodly" by reckoning (or crediting) Christ's righteousness to them (Romans 4:5). Believers are clothed in His righteousness, and God accepts them solely and exclusively on that basis. That's why the Apostle Paul was willing to discard all his own efforts to earn God's favor, preferring instead to stand before God robed in a righteousness that was not his own (Philippians 3:8-9).
The Bible teaches that God "justifies the ungodly" by reckoning (or crediting) Christ's righteousness to them (Romans 4:5). Believers are clothed in His righteousness, and God accepts them solely and exclusively on that basis. That's why the Apostle Paul was willing to discard all his own efforts to earn God's favor, preferring instead to stand before God robed in a righteousness that was not his own (Philippians 3:8-9).
R
RightFromWrong
Guest
I think we are dealing with a few Penticostles on this board 
Craigbythesea
Well-Known Member
Buckster 75 wrote,
1 Cor. 10:1. For I do not want you to be unaware, brethren, that our fathers were all under the cloud and all passed through the sea;
2. and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
3. and all ate the same spiritual food;
4. and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them; and the rock was Christ.
5. Nevertheless, with most of them God was not well-pleased; for they were laid low in the wilderness.
6. Now these things happened as examples for us, so that we would not crave evil things as they also craved.
7. Do not be idolaters, as some of them were; as it is written, "THE PEOPLE SAT DOWN TO EAT AND DRINK, AND STOOD UP TO PLAY."
8. Nor let us act immorally, as some of them did, and twenty-three thousand fell in one day.
9. Nor let us try the Lord, as some of them did, and were destroyed by the serpents.
10. Nor grumble, as some of them did, and were destroyed by the destroyer.
11. Now these things happened to them as an example, and they were written for our instruction, upon whom the ends of the ages have come.
12. Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed that he does not fall. (NASB, 1995)
Christians do not lose their salvation for committing one isolated sin; but some Christians who were truly saved through their personal faith in Christ do subsequently cease to believe on Christ and once again become entangled in sin and lose their salvation. There are very many warnings in the Bible about the danger of apostasy and God has set in place lines that once crossed result in damnation. The goal of a Christian is not to see how close he can get to one of those lines without losing his salvation; the goal of a Christian is to be crucified with Christ so that Christ may live through him.
1 Cor. 10:1. For I do not want you to be unaware, brethren, that our fathers were all under the cloud and all passed through the sea;
2. and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
3. and all ate the same spiritual food;
4. and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them; and the rock was Christ.
5. Nevertheless, with most of them God was not well-pleased; for they were laid low in the wilderness.
6. Now these things happened as examples for us, so that we would not crave evil things as they also craved.
7. Do not be idolaters, as some of them were; as it is written, "THE PEOPLE SAT DOWN TO EAT AND DRINK, AND STOOD UP TO PLAY."
8. Nor let us act immorally, as some of them did, and twenty-three thousand fell in one day.
9. Nor let us try the Lord, as some of them did, and were destroyed by the serpents.
10. Nor grumble, as some of them did, and were destroyed by the destroyer.
11. Now these things happened to them as an example, and they were written for our instruction, upon whom the ends of the ages have come.
12. Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed that he does not fall. (NASB, 1995)
buckster75
Member
isolated sin? are you kidding? Sin is sin is sin. So if I just tell a little lie maybe I should not play the trump card yet and ask Jesus in my heart cuz I may need it to cover a "bigger" sin?
Craigbythesea
Well-Known Member
I have both studied and taught Paul’s Epistle to the Romans. Indeed, I have in my personal library more than 250 volumes on that epistle, and hundreds of other volumes on Paul and his theology. When an individual first comes to Christ by faith, all of the sins that he has committed are totally and permanently forgiven and he is justified in the sight of God with a totally clean slate. Some Christians keep their slate clean, many do not. Those who do not must come to Christ, confess their sins, and repent of them. Those who subsequently choose to reject Christ and His teaching get their slate dirty and pay the price for it in hell. God is not blind and He is always aware of the condition of your slate. If anyone has told you differently, that person has lied to you.
Craigbythesea
Well-Known Member
????????
1 John 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it. (KJV, 1769)
buckster75
Member
now I hate to ask this. So I guess the point of Jesus washing the disiples feet was just because they were dirty? Could not have been any thing to do with sin cuz then He would be looking for different set of 12.
Craigbythesea
Well-Known Member
??????
I do not understand where you are coming from or going to with this.
buckster75
Member
Back up to the previous first. What is the sin leading to death?
R
RightFromWrong
Guest
I think we need to give up on this Craig. He isn't making any Biblical sense at ALL. He keeps contradicting himself and Gods word, one minute sin is forgiven the next if he doesn't keep account of ALL his sins and confesses them he isn't saved anymore.
Craig doesn't seem understand that there are sins of OMISSION ( sins that we do and don't even realize it ) and sins of COMMISSION ( ones we are aware of ) So like I said before we sin even when we don't even realize it. So according to those who believe they can lose their salvation they WILL NEVER go to Heaven since they are ALWAYS sinning.
I thank God I know for a fact I am forgiven no matter what I do. That the only thing that is hendered is my RELATIONSHIP with God and my rewards. NOT MY POSITION.
I strive all the time to please God don't get me wrong, but hey I am human and I constantly make mistakes and get self centered. I am glad God is way bigger than I am and forgives me UNCONDITIONALLY.
I feel sorry for those who don't have the same kind of relationship I have with God. Who are always in fear of being rejected and cast into the lake of fire. What a MEAN God they must have
Craig doesn't seem understand that there are sins of OMISSION ( sins that we do and don't even realize it ) and sins of COMMISSION ( ones we are aware of ) So like I said before we sin even when we don't even realize it. So according to those who believe they can lose their salvation they WILL NEVER go to Heaven since they are ALWAYS sinning.
I thank God I know for a fact I am forgiven no matter what I do. That the only thing that is hendered is my RELATIONSHIP with God and my rewards. NOT MY POSITION.
I strive all the time to please God don't get me wrong, but hey I am human and I constantly make mistakes and get self centered. I am glad God is way bigger than I am and forgives me UNCONDITIONALLY.
I feel sorry for those who don't have the same kind of relationship I have with God. Who are always in fear of being rejected and cast into the lake of fire. What a MEAN God they must have
buckster75
Member
I think you may be correct about Craig RightFromWrong. I thought this was settle among Baptist anyway? But I hate to see the falsehood spread.
From Bro Craig's latests posts I believe I know the root of his frustation.
The tares, the pretenders. Those who "talk the talk" but don't "walk the walk" as it were.
They don't actually practice righteousness but have a form of godliness.
In Matthew 13, please note that they did not start out as wheat and turn inot tares, they were tares from the beginning sown by the devil.
Indeed, they will be burned in the end of all things.
HankD
The tares, the pretenders. Those who "talk the talk" but don't "walk the walk" as it were.
They don't actually practice righteousness but have a form of godliness.
In Matthew 13, please note that they did not start out as wheat and turn inot tares, they were tares from the beginning sown by the devil.
Indeed, they will be burned in the end of all things.
HankD