Repenting of sin-Once saved always saved

[Frogman]

Stop doing what? If you have a legitimate complaint tell a moderator. If not, quit trying to discredit my posts by making the appearance that I am attacking you.

Bro. Dallas

 

[JackRUS]

Originally posted by StraightAndNarrow:
I have posted this scripture 3 times (MA 21:35-40) and none of those supporting the doctrine of OSAS seems to be able to explain how it fits into their beliefs.

Can anyone who supports OSAS explain how this is compatible with their beliefs?

Yes, I just did. See my post above.

You will note that the context of Mt. 25 is in direct correlation to Mt. 24, and that is His second coming to Earth and not the final judgement. Your interpretation is the same way that Catholics interpret Mt. 25 in order to interject Meritorious Works into the Gospel. If works sustain your salvation, then you are saved by them. No one dies the instant that they believe and are converted. John 17:15.

I would recommend that you read Gal. 3:2-3, and Rom. 10:2-4.

 

[Craigbythesea]

Frogman wrote,

Now, if you wish report my post to the moderators.

Some time ago, in another thread in which two of this board’s administrators were actively posting, those who took the position that I was taking were repeated accused of not being saved and we were repeatedly called several different names. In the very same thread I repeatedly brought these violations to the attentions of the administrators and they did not edit a single word of the offending posts.

There are two doctrines that the administrators of this board do not at all agree with and some of the allow those who post in support of them to be severely abused by others. These two doctrines are the doctrine of conditional security and the doctrine of an old earth.

Dr. Bob, on the other hand, has always treated me graciously and fairly even though he VERY strongly disagrees with some of my beliefs. You might want to run this by him and get is personal opinion on the matter.


Frogman, you are both a Christian and a moderator and I trust that you know that you are behaving inappropriately in posting about my relationship with Christ rather than the data that I post pertinent to the doctrines at hand. It does not offend me personally when people insult me, but it sets a very poor example for the others members of this board and it makes Christians appear to others to be wolves rather than sheep who love Jesus. Let’s stick to the Scriptures and the evidence that we respectively have that our interpretation is the correct interpretation.

 

[Frogman]

Dear Brother CraigbytheSea,
You run this by Dr. Bob. Then you will know I did not privately (as a ravenous wolf) influence his opinion in the least.

Also, know this, that the Bible states by the very words of Christ that what WE BOTH possess in HIM is Eternal Life. Therefore, we are to rest in HIM as HAVING FULFILLED ALL THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD.

I believe Eternal means everlasting. Show me by scripture, or your superior exegetical abilities that it does not and then you will have accomplished something.

As I said before. I have done nothing to attack you personally. If you disagree with that report these posts to anyone you feel should review them. Because of my Moderator's position, I will not make the report. IF I did make the report, then the reviewer did find nothing wrong with my posting, THEN there would be greater trouble than what you are imagine we are having now as it would make a martyr of you.

Please, do what you feel necessary. I assure you that I will abide by the decision of the moderators/administrators.

May God Bless,
bro. Dallas Eaton

 

[Craigbythesea]

Frogman wrote,

Stop doing what?

Stop posting about my relationship with Christ and my knowledge of Church history, etc. This thread is not about my relationship with Christ or my knowledge of this or that, this thread is about the doctrines of eternal security and conditional security. What does the Bible have to say about these doctrines and what evidence do we have that our interpretation is the correct interpretation?

I have repeatedly posted that the individual Scriptures used to support the doctrine of eternal security do NOT actually support that doctrine and I have posted data in support of my statements from church history, the history of the interpretation of the New Testament, and from my own exegesis of the Greek text with special reference to the use by John of the Greek present active indicative and the Greek present participle of the word translated in our English texts as “believe.” What data do you have to post to show that your interpretation is the correct interpretation and that my interpretation is an incorrect interpretation?

 

[Craigbythesea]

Frogman wrote,

Also, know this, that the Bible states by the very words of Christ that what WE BOTH possess in HIM is Eternal Life. Therefore, we are to rest in HIM as HAVING FULFILLED ALL THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD.

I believe Eternal means everlasting. Show me by scripture, or your superior exegetical abilities that it does not and then you will have accomplished something.

Earlier in this thread we considered the Greek texts in which it is alleged that they teach as you say and we saw that when the Greek tense of the verb and participle translated "believe" is carefully considered, these passages in the writings of John do NOT support the doctrine of eternal security. Our analysis included the study of Greek aspect, the meaning of “aspect” when used as a part of grammar, and the implications for our respective views when Greek aspect is considered in respect to believing in Jesus. Did you read these posts and do you have any data to add to what has already been posted? Do you have any other verses that you would like for us to examine in the Greek text or the English translation of the text? Do you have any specific data from Church history or the history of the interpretation of the New Testament that is pertinent to our discussion and that we can profitably examine to increase our knowledge of the facts?

 

[Frogman]

CraigbytheSea and StraightandNarrow,
when you want a moderator to review something, you must click the report post icon. Otherwise, a moderator may not ever know you want something reviewed. We do have outside lives.

I am referring to page 6. I am also referring to page 6 with this quote from CraigbytheSea:

In 1 John 5:10 quoted above, the words translated from the Greek read, “He that believeth” are a translation of a Greek present participle in the indicative mood as are all of the similar passages in John’s writings that are quoted to support the doctrine of eternal security by those who are not familiar with the Greek language. The huge significance of this is that the Greek present participle conveys continuous, ongoing action rather than punctiliar action. Therefore, the one who has the witness in himself is exclusively one who not only believes on the Son of God, but who is continuing to believe on the Son of God. This passage says absolutely nothing about those persons who at some point in time believed but who have fallen away and no longer believe on the Son of God.

It is third from the bottom. Note how the proper interpretation of the Greek grammar is explained to us. Note how we are told this is a continuing to believe on the name of Jesus for eternal life.

Then show me where anyone opposing your view has said that the regenerated will not continue to believe, in accordance to your Greek. The work is eternal not because we have believed but because it is from eternity and extends to eternity. If it only becomes eternal when I enter into a timely belief of it, then it really isn't eternal, but is only timely.

No one is rejecting the continuing working of the power of God in the witness of the regenerated to believe. Study the experience of Abraham sometime and see how the Christian experience is much the same, many instances of being brought to a greater knowledge of their position before God in Christ.

At any moment in the experience of a regenerated person God could require there life and would be just in condemning them. There is no perfection on this side. There is a perfect internal work that has created a new creature in us by the quickening power of the Spirit of God, but the flesh is still bound about by its grave clothes and still will war against that Spirit of Adoption.

Losing a baseball? Come on, this is an experiential work that we cannot attain to without having been born again a new creature; how can we be unborn; How can we believe we have passed from death to life only to pass again to that position of death eternal which is the second death?

yeah, your Greek exegetical skills are impressive, you simply failed to note this is a work of God (John 1:29) that 'ye believe on Him whom He hath sent'.

Bro. Dallas

 

[RightFromWrong]

Like I said before I am sure we have Non Baptist writing on this board, who like to start trouble.

RightfromWrong,
I edited your post because of the nature of your words. Do not post charges against other posters such as you did. I am leaving the above statement because it is general and is not identifying anyone specifically.

Thanks.
Bro. Dallas

[ August 26, 2005, 08:25 PM: Message edited by: Frogman ]

 

[HankD]

{quote]Please stop posting this nonsense about me and show me in the Greek text of the New Testament where it states that anyone other than those individuals who are currently believing in and upon Christ have eternal life.[/quote]Here IMO is your major malfunction Craig: That the children of God can ever stop believing on the Lord Jesus Christ and our Father in heaven.

Say what you will it's impossible. I know, I've been to the pit and He came to get me for that very reason.

"Though he slay me, yet will I trust in him..."

"They shall never perish"


HankD

 

[RightFromWrong]

I didn't say that !

 

[Frogman]

RightfromWrong,
HankD is not quoting anything you said, it is a reply to me by CraigbytheSea.

Calm down fella. Before the black helicopters come to get ya

Bro. Dallas

 

[StraightAndNarrow]

Originally posted by JackRUS:
You are mixed up because that is not the final judgment, but rather Christ's judgment of the people on Earth in the physical real concerning their case for entering into the Millennium kingdom reign of Christ upon His return. It has to do with how they treated the Jews and Christians that were still on Earth during the Tribulation.

The real final judgment is described in Rev. 20:11-14 and speaks of the books concerning the sins of the lost, and the book of life. There is no such judgment for those who's names are written in the book of life.

So then, what are you doing in order to sustain your own salvation? A partial list would be appreciated.

I mean, after all; if you argue for the loss of salvation, surely you should have a more practical warning based on salvation experience.

There will be only ONE JUDGEMENT. It's amazing how many people rest their entire faith on events in the Book of Revelation that most probably are symbolic not real. What do you think the "kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world" refers to if not the Kingdom of Heaven?

Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

What is everlasting fire but HELL? This is it, the one and only judgment as described by Jesus Christ himself. The judgment scene in Revelation describes the same event.

Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
*************************************************
I don't know what you're asking for when you say a more practical warning. My warning to everyone is that they must not take their salvation lightly but must work it out with fear and trembling.

Phl 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

[ August 26, 2005, 09:08 PM: Message edited by: StraightAndNarrow ]

 

[RightFromWrong]

frogman I knew that

I just wish Hank would always put who he is quoting. It is so confusing
sometime.

 

[JackRUS]

Originally posted by Craigbythesea:
Frogman wrote,

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Have a look at those conditional statements that apparently make you draw back in fear and see their timely application. It would be a blessing of a calming Sea and Rest for you.

Please stop posting this nonsense about me and show me in the Greek text of the New Testament where it states that anyone other than those individuals who are currently believing in and upon Christ have eternal life. Please also show me in the Greek New Testament where it teaches that our relationship to the eternal life of Christ is in itself eternal.

The plain and simple fact is that you cannot do this nor can any Baptist Bible scholar do so. The doctrine of eternal life is a non-biblical doctrine. Plain and simple!

</font>[/QUOTE]Then why does every credible Bible translation say 'eternal life'? How about in plane English then instead of the Greek? (Of course as translated from the Greek texts by every translator that has been born again and involved in printing Bibles).

"And this is the will of Him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on Him, may have everlasting life: and I will (not 'might') raise him up at the last day." John 6:40

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath (present tense) everlasting (not 'temporal')life." John 6:47

"Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?" John 11:25-26

"He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have (again, present tense) eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God." 1 John 5:12-13

See also John 3:15-16; 10:28; 17:2-3; Acts 13:48; Rom. 6:23, etc.

 

[JackRUS]

StraightAndNarrow.

You wrote:

There will be only ONE JUDGEMENT. It's amazing how many people rest their entire faith on events in the Book of Revelation that most probably are symbolic not real. What do you think the "kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world" refers to if not the Kingdom of Heaven?[/b]

First off, when an unsaved person dies, he goes to Hell. Those goats are killed by Christ, and thus are sent to Hell.

And your assertion that the book of Revelation is not real is absurd. Why then does the Lord promise a blessing to those that read it? And when does the Lord call the book aq 'prophesy' if it's not real? Rev. 22:7

And who said that I rest my entire faith on Revelation? Did you not read my post from Joseph Dillow?

I suggest that you read Isa. 9:6-7 and descern for me if the government of the nations 'upon the throne of David' is here on Earth or in Heaven. Do you think that God's throne in Heaven is really David's throne?

 

[Frogman]

Ok, RightfromWrong,
the helicopters have been called back

 

[Pipedude]

Hey: when the "pants on women" thread reached twenty pages, C4K closed it.

Does this thread have eternal life or somethin'?

 

[Frogman]

Originally posted by Pipedude:
Hey: when the "pants on women" thread reached twenty pages, C4K closed it.

Does this thread have eternal life or somethin'?

First question, I don't think there is a page limit rule on this forum, was that thread on this forum?

Second question, perseverance, as we would say in the C/A, the Calvinists have no choice and the Arminians keep on responding....

Bro. Dallas

 

[Frogman]

People like OSAS because it means they don't have live an authenic life. They can be "carnal Christians," Well, I'll give you a clue. There isn't any such thing as a carnal Christian, someone who talks the talk but doesn't walk the walk. Yes, I'll argue all day against a false religion.

Folks, we all (myself included) need to try and discontinue posts like this one, ok?

If you have an inclination to post something like this, please don't, from this time forward when a post like this is seen I will delete it asap, OSAS, or OSCBLA or whatever.

Bro. Dallas

 

[StraightAndNarrow]

Originally posted by Frogman:
CraigbytheSea,
Nothing I have written is a personal attack upon you.

If you think otherwise contact the fellow moderators or an administrator of this forum and this board. I will abide by their collective decision.

Still, all the formal education in the world, all the finest exegesis in man's ability cannot alter the fact that Christ said He gives to US both ETERNAL LIFE. And further that His Father is greater than any man and none can pluck any of His out of His Father's Hand.

If you choose to remain in your bondage of fear, that is your choice.

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Joh 8:36 (KJV) If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

Now, if you wish report my post to the moderators.

Bro. Dallas Eaton

</font>[/QUOTE]Please read all the scripture that both Craig and I have posted which refute your stance. You might be a moderator but you can't dictate what I can and can not believe based on my own study of the Bible and prayer. Perpetrators of OSAS are leading a lot of people down the path to perdition. But, they FEEL REAL GOOD ON THE WAY.