Repetition & Redundancy in the Scriptures

[franklinmonroe]

Matthew may take the prize for most internal repetition. Even more duplicated words (KJV) --

4:14 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying,

​

8:17 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, Himself took our infirmities, and bare [our] sicknesses.

12:17 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying,
​

​

 

[franklinmonroe]

Have you discovered any biblical redundancy in your recent readings?

Notice the duplication within Exodus 32:4 & 8 and also with 1 Kings 12:28 (KJV) --

4 And he received [them] at their hand, and fashioned it with a graving tool, after he had made it a molten calf: and they said, These [be] thy gods, O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.

8 They have turned aside quickly out of the way which I commanded them: they have made them a molten calf, and have worshipped it, and have sacrificed thereunto, and said, These [be] thy gods, O Israel, which have brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.

28 Whereupon the king took counsel, and made two calves [of] gold, and said unto them, It is too much for you to go up to Jerusalem: behold thy gods, O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.​

Does your translation also display this repetition to a greater or lesser degree?

 

[franklinmonroe]

I was just now reading noticed this repetition (like a chorus, I suppose) in Psalm 24:7-10 (KJV) --

7 Lift up your heads, O ye gates; and be ye lift up, ye everlasting doors;

and the King of glory shall come in. ​

8 Who [is] this King of glory? The LORD strong and mighty, the LORD mighty in battle. ​

9 Lift up your heads, O ye gates; even lift [them] up, ye everlasting doors;

and the King of glory shall come in. ​

10 Who is this King of glory? The LORD of hosts, he [is] the King of glory. Selah.
​

Beautiful !!!

 

[franklinmonroe]

More duplication among the Psalms: Psalm 115:4-8 & Psalm 135:15-18 (KJV) --

4 Their idols [are] silver and gold, the work of men's hands.
5 They have mouths, but they speak not: eyes have they, but they see not:
6 They have ears, but they hear not: noses have they, but they smell not:
7 They have hands, but they handle not: feet have they, but they walk not: neither speak they through their throat.
8 They that make them are like unto them; [so is] every one that trusteth in them.

15 The idols of the heathen [are] silver and gold, the work of men's hands.
16 They have mouths, but they speak not; eyes have they, but they see not;
17 They have ears, but they hear not; neither is there [any] breath in their mouths.
18 They that make them are like unto them: [so is] every one that trusteth in them.​

 

[tyndale1946]

Have you discovered any biblical redundancy in your recent readings?

Notice the duplication within Exodus 32:4 & 8 and also with 1 Kings 12:28 (KJV) --

4 And he received [them] at their hand, and fashioned it with a graving tool, after he had made it a molten calf: and they said, These [be] thy gods, O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.

8 They have turned aside quickly out of the way which I commanded them: they have made them a molten calf, and have worshipped it, and have sacrificed thereunto, and said, These [be] thy gods, O Israel, which have brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.

28 Whereupon the king took counsel, and made two calves [of] gold, and said unto them, It is too much for you to go up to Jerusalem: behold thy gods, O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.​

Does your translation also display this repetition to a greater or lesser degree?

Here is a side note that I didn't see on here... What is the designation of Gods people?... We are called children!... Now if you are an adult surely you have been a child and understand how many times your parents had to repeat something before you understood it... Some of us are hardheaded, stubborn and bullheaded we like to do things our way... And the children of Israel were no different... How many times did God need to declare who he is?... How many times did he have to warn them what would happen if they didn't follow his ways?... Too many and look what happened when they did or didn't... kyredneck is right in the name of two or three witnesses let every word be established... Repetition yes for a reason... Redundancy no way each scripture in the Bible is there for a reason and placed exactly where it should be... Those are my thoughts... Brother Glen

 

[franklinmonroe]

Yes, repetition is beneficial for recall.

However, for those repetitions that occur between different books of the Bible we need to remember that most believers up to and even beyond Gutenberg's moveable type either did not have the entire collection of canonical books or lacked the education to read it. They would have never known these repetitions. We are blessed to have the entire complete Word of God and have the time, skills, and tools to identify some of the repetition and consistency found across the biblical writings.

 

[franklinmonroe]

Here is such an example of repetition across two books: Joshua 24:28-31 & Judges 2:6-9 (KJV) --

28 So Joshua let the people depart, every man unto his inheritance.
29 And it came to pass after these things, that Joshua the son of Nun, the servant of the LORD, died, [being] an hundred and ten years old.
30 And they buried him in the border of his inheritance in Timnathserah, which [is] in mount Ephraim, on the north side of the hill of Gaash.
31 And Israel served the LORD all the days of Joshua, and all the days of the elders that overlived Joshua, and which had known all the works of the LORD, that he had done for Israel.


6 And when Joshua had let the people go, the children of Israel went every man unto his inheritance to possess the land.
7 And the people served the LORD all the days of Joshua, and all the days of the elders that outlived Joshua, who had seen all the great works of the LORD, that he did for Israel.
8 And Joshua the son of Nun, the servant of the LORD, died, [being] an hundred and ten years old.
9 And they buried him in the border of his inheritance in Timnathheres, in the mount of Ephraim, on the north side of the hill Gaash.
​

 

[franklinmonroe]

An example of a very similar statement between two different books: Joel 2:13 & Jonah 4:2 (KJV) --

13 And rend your heart, and not your garments, and turn unto the LORD your God: for he [is] gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repenteth him of the evil.

2 And he prayed unto the LORD, and said, I pray thee, O LORD, [was] not this my saying, when I was yet in my country? Therefore I fled before unto Tarshish: for I knew that thou [art] a gracious God, and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repentest thee of the evil.
​

 

[franklinmonroe]

Very similar statements between two different books: Exodus 34:6-7 & Numbers 14:18 (KJV) --

6 And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth,
7 Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear [the guilty]; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth [generation].

18 The LORD [is] longsuffering, and of great mercy, forgiving iniquity and transgression, and by no means clearing [the guilty], visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth [generation].
​

 

[franklinmonroe]

Have you discovered a redundancy in your Bible reading? It seems I cannot read very long before I notice some repetition. Look at the similarities within these two verses from Psalm 59 (KJV) --

6 They return at evening:
they make a noise like a dog,
and go round about the city.

14 And at evening let them return;
and let them make a noise like a dog,
and go round about the city.

 

[franklinmonroe]

The parallel between these two verses (Ephesians 1:7 & Colossians 1:14) is well known, but unless I missed it they have not yet been posted in this thread --

7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

 

[franklinmonroe]

The pagan nations that inhabited the Promised Land before the Israelites are often listed in Scripture. Sometimes the list has seven groups named (Deut. 7:1; Joshua 3:10, 24:11), many times six (Exodus 23:23; Det. 20:17; Joshua 12:8; Neh. 9:8), occasionally just five (Exodus 13:5, Numbers 13:29; 1 Kings 9:20; 2 Chr. 8:7). There are eight tribes listed in Ezra 9:1, and ten people groups listed in Genesis 15:19-21.

Obviously, the names of some tribes in some lists are absent from other lists AND the order in which they are mentioned is frequently different. In all the verses that list five or more of the pagan nations together only the three verses below have exactly the same tribes named and in exactly the same order. The only three tribes to make every list are: Hittites, Amorites, and Jebusites.

What conclusions could be drawn from this data? Well, it seems to me that it is evidence that scribes did not simply copy the list from one place to another (or else they were very poor copiers). That is, there is actually the lack of duplication displayed here! Secondly, it seems to indicate that God did not regard any singular pagan tribe with more significance than any of the other squattters.

Exodus 3:8, 17 & Judges 3:5 (KJV) –

8 And I am come down to deliver them out of the hand of the Egyptians, and to bring them up out of that land unto a good land and a large, unto a land flowing with milk and honey; unto the place of the Canaanites, and the Hittites, and the Amorites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites.

17 And I have said, I will bring you up out of the affliction of Egypt unto the land of the Canaanites, and the Hittites, and the Amorites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites, unto a land flowing with milk and honey.

5 And the children of Israel dwelt among the Canaanites, Hittites, and Amorites, and Perizzites, and Hivites, and Jebusites:

 

[franklinmonroe]

Notice how these three uplifting phrases reoccur together frequently: Be strong and of [a] good courage; Fear not, nor be afraid/dismayed; He will not fail thee, nor forsake thee (KJV)--

Deuteronomy 31:6 Be strong and of a good courage, fear not, nor be afraid of them: for the LORD thy God, he it is that doth go with thee; he will not fail thee, nor forsake thee.
7 And Moses called unto Joshua, and said unto him in the sight of all Israel, Be strong and of a good courage: for thou must go with this people unto the land which the LORD hath sworn unto their fathers to give them; and thou shalt cause them to inherit it.
23 And he gave Joshua the son of Nun a charge, and said, Be strong and of a good courage: for thou shalt bring the children of Israel into the land which I sware unto them: and I will be with thee.

Joshua 1:6 Be strong and of a good courage: for unto this people shalt thou divide for an inheritance the land, which I sware unto their fathers to give them.
7 Only be thou strong and very courageous, that thou mayest observe to do according to all the law, which Moses my servant commanded thee: turn not from it to the right hand or to the left, that thou mayest prosper whithersoever thou goest.
9 Have not I commanded thee? Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the LORD thy God is with thee whithersoever thou goest.
18 Whosoever he be that doth rebel against thy commandment, and will not hearken unto thy words in all that thou commandest him, he shall be put to death: only be strong and of a good courage.

Joshua 10:25 And Joshua said unto them, Fear not, nor be dismayed, be strong and of good courage: for thus shall the LORD do to all your enemies against whom ye fight.

1 Chronicles 22:13 Then shalt thou prosper, if thou takest heed to fulfil the statutes and judgments which the LORD charged Moses with concerning Israel: be strong, and of good courage; dread not, nor be dismayed.

1 Chronicles 28:20 And David said to Solomon his son, Be strong and of good courage, and do it: fear not, nor be dismayed: for the LORD God, even my God, will be with thee; he will not fail thee, nor forsake thee, until thou hast finished all the work for the service of the house of the LORD.

2 Chronicles 32:7 Be strong and courageous, be not afraid nor dismayed for the king of Assyria, nor for all the multitude that is with him: for there be more with us than with him:

 

[franklinmonroe]

Repeated phrases helped shape the chapter divisions of the Book of Job (KJV)--

6:1 But Job answered and said,
9:1 Then Job answered and said,
12:1 And Job answered and said,
16:1 Then Job answered and said,
19:1 Then Job answered and said,
21:1 But Job answered and said,
23:1 Then Job answered and said,
26:1 But Job answered and said,

A question to Hebrew experts: Does the original text require the different English words "But", And", and "Then", or is this merely stylistic in the above verses?

40:3 Then Job answered the LORD, and said,
42:1 Then Job answered the LORD, and said,

27:1 Moreover Job continued his parable, and said,
29:1 Moreover Job continued his parable, and said,
38:1 Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,
40:6 Then answered the LORD unto Job out of the whirlwind, and said,

Other Bible translations I referenced only have the word "whirlwind" in in 38:1 (not in 40:1 for examples) --
ESV - And the LORD said to Job:
NKJV - Moreover the LORD answered Job, and said:
YLT - And Jehovah doth answer Job, and saith: --
NET - Then the LORD answered Job:
NASB - Then the LORD said to Job,

4:1 Then Eliphaz the Temanite answered and said,
15:1 Then answered Eliphaz the Temanite, and said,
22:1 Then Eliphaz the Temanite answered and said,

The Hebrew seems to be in the same word order in each of the above verses. The different word order in English seems to be merely stylistic.

8:1 Then answered Bildad the Shuhite, and said,
18:1 Then answered Bildad the Shuhite, and said,
25:1 Then answered Bildad the Shuhite, and said,

11:1 Then answered Zophar the Naamathite, and said,
20:1 Then answered Zophar the Naamathite, and said,

 

[franklinmonroe]

Repeated verses from the book of Song of Songs (KJV) - -

2:6 His left hand is under my head, and his right hand doth embrace me.
8:3 His left hand should be under my head, and his right hand should embrace me.

The words "is" and "should be" above are inserted by the KJV translators (thus italic). Is the difference determined by different verb tense ("doth" rather than "should") at the end of the verse?

2:7 I charge you, O ye daughters of Jerusalem, by the roes,
and by the hinds of the field, that ye stir not up,
nor awake my love, till he please.
3:5 I charge you, O ye daughters of Jerusalem, by the roes,
and by the hinds of the field, that ye stir not up,
nor awake my love, till he please.

 

[Deacon]

Matthew may take the prize for most internal repetition.

The structure of Matthew is built upon five discourse/narrative units identified by a repetitive phrase.

When Jesus had finished saying these things, the crowds were astonished at his teaching Matthew 7:28 CSB

When Jesus had finished giving instructions to his twelve disciples, he moved on from there to teach and preach in their towns. Matthew 11:1

When Jesus had finished these parables, he left there. Matthew 13:53

When Jesus had finished saying these things, he departed from Galilee and went to the region of Judea across the Jordan. Matthew 19:1

When Jesus had finished saying all these things, he told his disciples, Matthew 26:1
​

Rob

 

[franklinmonroe]

Excellent contribution, Deacon!

 

[franklinmonroe]

Isaiah 35:10 & 51:11 (KJV)--

10 And the ransomed of the LORD shall return,
and come to Zion with songs and everlasting joy upon their heads:
they shall obtain joy and gladness, and sorrow and sighing shall flee away.

11 Therefore the redeemed of the LORD shall return,
and come with singing unto Zion; and everlasting joy shall be upon their head:
they shall obtain gladness and joy; and sorrow and mourning shall flee away.

The same Hebrew word seems to be behind both "ransomed" and "redeemed". Also true for "with songs" & "with singing" and "sighing" & "mourning". There does not seem to be a different word order at "joy and gladness" in the two Hebrew verses. Each verse has about 65 Hebrew characters, with only about 3 differences between them (translated into at least 6 difference in English here).

 

[franklinmonroe]

I was studying for my adult Sunday School lesson for this week in Joshua 10 when I noticed these two verses were exactly the same (KJV) --

15 And Joshua returned, and all Israel with him, unto the camp to Gilgal.
43 And Joshua returned, and all Israel with him, unto the camp to Gilgal.

The chapter also has many reoccurring phrases --

28 And that day Joshua took Makkedah, and smote it with the edge of the sword, and the king thereof he utterly destroyed, them, and all the souls that were therein; he let none remain: and he did to the king of Makkedah as he did unto the king of Jericho.

30 And the LORD delivered it also, and the king thereof, into the hand of Israel; and he smote it with the edge of the sword, and all the souls that were therein; he let none remain in it; but did unto the king thereof as he did unto the king of Jericho.

32 And the LORD delivered Lachish into the hand of Israel, which took it on the second day, and smote it with the edge of the sword, and all the souls that were therein, according to all that he had done to Libnah.

35 And they took it on that day, and smote it with the edge of the sword, and all the souls that were therein he utterly destroyed that day, according to all that he had done to Latish.

37 And they took it, and smote it with the edge of the sword, and the king thereof, and all the cities thereof, and all the souls that were therein; he left none remaining, according to all that he had done to Eglon; but destroyed it utterly, and all the souls that were therein.

39 And he took it, and the king thereof, and all the cities thereof; and they smote them with the edge of the sword, and utterly destroyed all the souls that were therein; he left none remaining: as he had done to Hebron, so he did to Debir, and to the king thereof; as he had done also to Libnah, and to her king.

 

[Ziggy]

To save time in reinventing the wheel: Robert Girdlestone already has covered most of this OT field relating to English parallels in his 1894 book, "Deuterographs: Parallel Passages in the Old Testament" (available for download from Deuterographs : duplicate passages in the Old Testament, their bearing on the text and compilation of the Hebrew scriptures : Girdlestone, Robert Baker, 1836-1923 : Free Download & Streaming : Internet Archive

There is also a work from the Israel Bible Society (Carta: Jerusalem, 1972), "Parallels in the Bible" by Abba Bendavid, that displays the Hebrew OT text in parallel columns, with differences highlighted in red. No idea if that is still available in print anywhere.