Replacement Theology

So, Keith, after all (you posted above) is said and done, do you believe in Replacement Theology or not ?

 

Christ did not return in AD 70. The scriptures immediately before, and after that which you quoted, shed some light on what our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ was saying. Verse 27 clearly points out, that when Jesus returns, he will reward every man according to his works. This did not happen in AD 70, and has not happened yet, as is obvious.

It most certainly did happen. It is called "THE RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD" and it began when Christ returned in AD 70. The souls who were in Paradise, which was a state of death (death being separation from God) were now able to be reunited with the Lord because of the finished work of Christ, specifically, His completion of YOM KIPPUR for the New Covenant body, the Church.

You need to study typology to get a grip on this. If Christ, as the Great High Priest of the New Covenant, has not returned, then the sacrifice is still not completed and we are still in our sins. To follow the type in the OT, everything depends upon His return.

Immediately after saying that some present would not see death until they saw the Son of man coming in his kingdom, Christ took Peter, James, And John with him, and was transfigured before them. They saw Christ in his glory. When he was transfigured, Moses and Elijah appeared and talked with Christ. Elijah walked from earth to heaven, without seeing death. Moses was resurrected by Christ, and was, and is in heaven. These two men represent the those who will be alive when Christ returns, never seeing death, and those who will be resurrected when Christ returns, ever to be with him. Christ gave these apostles a prophetic view of him coming in his kingdom by being transfigured before them, and having these two men with him, which represent the two groups of the saved that will exist when Christ returns. Christ himself testifies to these things.

Excuse me.... this is NOT seeing the Son of Man coming in His kingdom. As you so clearly pointed out, there was no judgement, no rewarding of men by what they had done.

John 5:28-29 28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

This is the second resurrection, spoken of in Rev. 20. There are two resurrections. The first is that of the righteous, and it is said of them that death hath no hold upon them. The rest of the dead live through the thousand year reign and upon the general resurection, are raised from the dead, judged, and condemned.

Matt 25:31-32 31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

According to the above verses, the angels will gather together the elect when Christ returns. The dead will be raised, and all will receive their reward, as stated in Matt. 16:28. It is then that he will divide the sheep from the goats, that is the saved, from the unsaved. None of this happened in AD 70, or has happened yet.

Again, this is the second resurrection, at which time the sheep and the goats will be separated. Hasn't happened yet.

But as I said, there are two resurrections mentioned in the Bible. The first one has already happened. It was spiritual in nature and involved the spirits of the just who were in Paradise, releasing them from the bondage of the Fall to be reunited with God because of the sacrifice of Christ. The second happens at the end of time.

Now tell me this....if Jesus hasn't returned, then He must still be in Heaven performing YOM KIPPUR as shown in Hebrews 9 and 10. If that is so, then how can the Church exist if YOM KIPPUR isn't finished yet? Only upon the finishing of YOM KIPPUR is the covenant ratified between God and the believer's nation.

Cordially in Christ,

Brother Ed

 

Catholic Convert, are you saying that the second coming of Jesus has already taken place?

The first resurection doesn't take place until the thousand years are over,Rev 20: 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

 

When did this happen? Why was I not told? Where is it in the Bible? Where is it in recorded history? Why have I been lied to all these years?

OK, pass the Kool-Aid.

 

Ed - your claim that Christ already returned in AD 70 can not be shown from any text in the NT - and even John writing after AD 70 - says nothing about the second coming already taking place.

In fact Paul states in 2Thess 2 that the 2nd coming can not happen until the apostacy (that many see as the rise of Catholicism in the dark ages) came about within the Christian church.

Bob said
The coming of Christ in Rev 19 is seen CLEARLY as taking place BEFORE the events of Rev 20 - the 1000 years.

No it is not a problem. Rev 19 and 20 comprise a large 2 chapter detailed sequence showing how the 2nd coming is followed by the millenium and that is followed by the lake of fire. The events that start and stop the millenium are also clearly identified and it is shown to be future to 90AD when John was writing.


Mt 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.


As Kamoroso showed - this is fulfilled in the Matt 17 sequence that follows for "Some Standing There".

Kamoroso's response shows that there is not need to manufacture snippets of ideas to come up with a 2nd coming in 70AD - Christ's words are fulfilled in the very next chapter - Matt 17.

Bob Said
The millenium STARTS with the resurrection of the righteous according to the TEXT of Rev 20 (and we SEE that resurrection described in 1Thess 4 and 1Cor 15. This is IN the text - you have to "want to be blind to it" to miss it.

In fact the Rev 20 text that you are appealing to - is the one that says "1000 years" it does not say "some undefined period of time".

No such use of "1000 years" is found in all of scripture.

"Christ Our Passover" was already sacrificed PRIOR to AD 70 - fulfilling the covenant promise as Paul points out in 2Cor 5.

Well - at least there is agreement there.

But Christ Already declared the New Covenant Sacrifice was in place Prior to 70 AD "This cup IS the New Covenant IN MY blood". It was done - prior to 70 AD.

That conclusion fails in a number of areas. First of all the Atoning sacrifice was complete BEFORE the END of the service according to Lev 16 describing the Day of Atonement. You are confusing "The Atoning Sacrifice" with the "entire Day of Atonement Process".

The Sacrifice was complete at the START of that process. But the entire process of atonement was not complete - until ALL events - reaching to the end of the chapter were ALL concluded.

This was a service held at the end of the year - after DAILY FORGIVENESS was already received all year - through the daily sacrifices.

The notion that sins are not forgiven for God's People until AFTER 70 AD - would require that we reject the Words of Christ Himself while on earth as HE said a number of times "your sin ARE forgiven" - even before the Cross.

In Matt 27 we see the resurrection of saints at the time of Christ's resurrection.

However - you are correct that some aspects of the entire atonement process and even of the resurrection of the saints (as we see in 1Thess 4) are not accomplished until Christ returns from serving as our great high priest (Heb 8-10) which He is now doing in heaven for us.

Nothing of the sort is found in scripture. There is no mention of dead Saints locked up in Paradise or OT dead saints being trapped there OR
of Paradise NOT being the place where the Tree of Life and Throne of God are - and have always been.

In Christ,

Bob