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Republican Liz Cheney endorses Kamala Harris

KenH

Well-Known Member
Wow! Staunch conservative, Liz Cheney, has endorsed Kamala Harris for president.

“I don’t believe that we have the luxury of writing in candidates’ names, particularly in swing states,” she said. “As a conservative, as someone who believes in and cares about the Constitution, I have thought deeply about this. Because of the danger that Donald Trump poses, not only am I not voting for Donald Trump, but I will be voting for Kamala Harris.”

- rest of article at Republican Liz Cheney endorses Kamala Harris
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
RINO's suffering from TDS on display.

OTOH, true blue Democrat RFK Jr is spot on, supporting DJT. Not to mention that Mr Musk seems fully on board.
 

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
Sad. But not unexpected (she was basically kicked out of the GOP).

I understand why Christians support the GOP. I don't agree, but I get it. But to see a professing Christian supporting the DNC is sad. It shows just how far Christianity has fallen in our nation.
 

KenH

Well-Known Member
she was basically kicked out of the GOP

Liz Cheney is still a member of the Republican Party. Cheney voted for what Donald Trump wanted while she was in Congress. The only reason he turned on her was because she would not go along with his attempt to overthrow the result of the 2020 presidential election.

Ideologically, I disagree with her on a lot of her foreign policy views, but I admire her for standing up for the republic and not kowtowing to Trump like so many weak-kneed Republicans have done.
 

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
Liz Cheney is still a member of the Republican Party. Cheney voted for what Donald Trump wanted while she was in Congress. The only reason he turned on her was because she would not go along with his attempt to overthrow the result of the 2020 presidential election.

Ideologically, I disagree with her on a lot of her foreign policy views, but I admire her for standing up for the republic and not kowtowing to Trump like so many weak-kneed Republicans have done.
I have no problem with her standing against Trump. I do with her supporting the DNC while professing to be a Christian (a Methodist....but still).

Not that I like the GOP, but there is a difference. The DNC platform is demonic.

The difference is a guy with a "I love Jesus" t-shirt sitting in his house reading pornography and another with the same shirt sitting in a public park reading the same magazine. Both are in the same spiritual state but only one is a testimony to others against Christ. That said, the one at home may be the greater danger to the church.
 

KenH

Well-Known Member
I have no problem with her standing against Trump. I do with her supporting the DNC while professing to be a Christian (a Methodist....but still).

I have no problem with her supporting Kamala Harris for president. But I understand that you and I have a difference of opinion on voting and what kind of vote is a sin(if any), and such.

We are all vile sinners voting for other vile sinners to rule over us. Adam and Eve rejected God's government in the Garden of Eden, thus all human governments are inherently corrupt while being a necessary evil.

Any vote for a person is a vote for a vile sinner(even if he or she has been regenerated by the Holy Spirit by God's free, sovereign grace). There are God's elect, who are still vile sinners in their flesh, and there are reprobates who are also vile sinners in their flesh.

Like I said, we are vile sinners voting for other vile sinners to rule over us in an inherently corrupt human government.
 

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
I have no problem with her supporting Kamala Harris for president. But I understand that you and I have a difference of opinion on voting and what kind of vote is a sin(if any), and such.

We are all vile sinners voting for other vile sinners to rule over us. Adam and Eve rejected God's government in the Garden of Eden, thus all human governments are inherently corrupt while being a necessary evil.

Any vote for a person is a vote for a vile sinner(even if he or she has been regenerated by the Holy Spirit by God's free, sovereign grace). There are God's elect, who are still vile sinners in their flesh, and there are reprobates who are also vile sinners in their flesh.

Like I said, we are vile sinners voting for other vile sinners to rule over us in an inherently corrupt human government.
My personal issue is the system we choose to support, not necessarily the party or person. We really do not know the candidates on any meaningful level anyway

Within that system (the one I abstain from participating) it then goes to party platforms.

Over the past decades I've thought and said that the DNC is demonic. It is the sins of Romans 3. But the GOP is more dangerous. Where the DNC is open about being a wolf the GOP is a wolf in sheep's clothing.



Domestic economics is easy.

The DNC sees the guy bleeding out and offers an endless supply of bandaids, as long as he keeps coming back.

The GOP says "that ain't no cure" and rather than offering a bandaid promises to send somebody to medical school to learn to treat his injury.


Our nation benefits from compromise. The DNC will destroy our nation. So will the GOP.

But....the reason I don't vote is a religious conviction not to participate in secular politics. I enjoy watching politics. I learn about people by how they address opposing political views and people in the other camp.

That, however, is my conviction. I wouldn't encourage anybody to act outside of their conviction.
 

Conan

Well-Known Member
Liz Cheney is still a member of the Republican Party. Cheney voted for what Donald Trump wanted while she was in Congress. The only reason he turned on her was because she would not go along with his attempt to overthrow the result of the 2020 presidential election.

Ideologically, I disagree with her on a lot of her foreign policy views, but I admire her for standing up for the republic and not kowtowing to Trump like so many weak-kneed Republicans have done.
She like her father is a member of the Congresional Military Industrial Complex. Trump is not. He is an outsider, and thinks it foolish to spend money on war. Thats not Trumps background. But it is Cheney's. Her father is MR Warmonger himself, Dick Cheney. He made untold millions off of the Iraqi war as head of Haliburton . I should say he made his money off of US tax payers. Charging us ridiculous rates for providing and transporting goods to an unrighteous war.
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I see the demonic ploy of claiming the Republicans are as bad or worse than the Democrats has once again been deployed.
Who was in charge when WWII broke out? Who was in charge when the Korean War broke out? Who was in charge when the Viet Nam War broke out.

Ladies and Gentlemen, the wolf in sheep's clothing is the current Democrat Party, the party of mandates, show trials, Russian hoaxes? Was the Laptop really Russian disinformation? Who suggested it had all the earmarks?

No one is claiming their are not RINOs within the GOP, but the attacks on Mr. Trump are engineered by the Democrats.

Who told you Mr Biden was fit as a fiddle?

Ever take to heart the moral of the story about the "Boy who Cried Wolf?" Russian Collusion? Laptop Disinformation, The Border is Secure. The list is long, more that three falsehoods.
 

KenH

Well-Known Member
Who was in charge when WWII broke out? Who was in charge when the Korean War broke out? Who was in charge when the Viet Nam War broke out.

Who was in charge when the first Iraq War broke out? Who was in charge when the Afghanistan War broke out? Who was in charge when the second Iraq War broke out?

So there, Van. So there.
 

KenH

Well-Known Member
But....the reason I don't vote is a religious conviction not to participate in secular politics.

Seems like a good opportunity to post my favorite case against political involvement(it has not, to date, persuaded me to not vote, but I think it is a solid case made against it):

David Lipscomb quoting B.U. Watkins in Lipscomb’s book, On Civil Government: Its Origin, Mission, and Destiny, and the Christian's Relation to It.

“One of the signs of the great Apostacy, was the union of Church and State. Its chosen symbol was a woman upon the back of a seven headed and ten horned beast. It is almost uniformly admitted, among American Protestants, that this is a well chosen symbol to represent the absurd, and unnatural union of Church and State. It is generally conceded, that the woman represents the Church, and the beast the old Roman civil government. This being true, it would appear far more natural for her to be riding the beast, than for him to have his locomotion promoted by the help of the woman! When the State comes forward and proffers its assistance, and the Church voluntarily accepts of such help, it might be a question, which would be the most to blame; the Church for accepting, or the State for offering such assistance. But when the Church gives, unasked, her power to the beast, no excuse can reasonably be pleaded. If the State supporting the Church, is called an adulterous union, I am unable to see, why the union is not equally intimate, and criminal, when the Church supports the State, by participating in all its responsibilities. When the Church offers her fellowship, and co-operation in framing all the laws of the land, and in choosing its judicial and executive officers - when even her members refuse not to become legislators, and are even forward to fill all the offices of human governments, I cannot see, but the relation between church and State, is as intimate as ever, and just as illegal. Ezekiel chided the ancient Hebrews for seeking such union with the nations; and he compares Israel to a woman of the lowest infamy. It is exceedingly painful to me, to see how aptly these symbols of John and Ezekiel apply to modern professors. But how greatly would I rejoice, if the reformation of the 19th century would arise and put on her beautiful garments, and show herself to be the true spouse of Christ. May the good Lord grant that this noble brotherhood, that I so dearly love, may soon see the whole truth! But here, I am met with the objection, that these institutions are ordained of God. And he who resists them resists an ordinance of God, and shall receive punishment. Let me here pause, and remark, that I would sooner be understood as taking the popular view of this passage, rather than appear to countenance any kind of war. Nothing is further from my intention. But the fact of civil government being ordained of God, is no proof of Divine approbation. So long as it can be clearly shown that he has ordained that one sinner should punish another, so long as we read in Isaiah, that Cyrus was sent against Babylon, although he knew not God, so long as we find it not difficult to admit the application of the above passage, to civil government, whether such be its meaning or not. To make the admission saves much time, and leaves the argument much more compact. Something is gained and nothing lost by granting all we can to our opponents. That God can overrule sin, without being responsible for its commission, and without having any complicity with it, is a thing so plain, that to turn aside to explain it would almost be an insult to those for whom these columns are written. Let a hint suffice. Pharaoh was raised up by God for a certain purpose, although his behavior was far from being approved of God. With a few axioms I will close this article. Axiom 1st, No man has the right of making laws for his own government. For such a right would include the double absurdity of making him independent of God, and responsible only to himself! Axiom 2nd. A republican government is one in which power is thought to be delegated by the people to their rulers, in their act of voting. Axiom 3rd. But a man cannot delegate a power he himself does not possess. Hence, INFERENCE 1st. As man has no inherent legislative power, he cannot transfer it to another. Hence, INFERENCE 2nd. Voting is therefore a deception, and a sham, making a deceiver of him, who votes, and a dupe of him who fancies himself the recipient of delegated power.”
 

Conan

Well-Known Member
Who was in charge when the first Iraq War broke out? Who was in charge when the Afghanistan War broke out? Who was in charge when the second Iraq War broke out?

So there, Van. So there.
George W Bush and Dick Cheney were in Charge. And they don't get along with Trump now do they. They are now friends of the democrats. We saw where Michelle Obama laughs and said she likes W Bush that he is a funny guy. We see where W goes against Trump. Because he is not for the Congressional Military Industrial war Complex. Democrats now all like war. And have accepted the war Republicans as friendly to the cause of war. How many has Bush Cheney Obama Biden Killed since gulf war 2?
 

KenH

Well-Known Member
George W Bush and Dick Cheney were in Charge. And they don't get along with Trump now do they.

They are Republicans, just like Van was making a similar charge against Democrats.

And have accepted the war Republicans as friendly to the cause of war. How many has Bush Cheney Obama Biden Killed since gulf war 2?

Are you anti-war, then? If so, I certainly respect such a position. Personally, I would like for all of the overseas United States military bases to be closed and all of the military personnel overseas brought back to the United States.
 

Conan

Well-Known Member
They are Republicans, just like Van was making a similar charge against Democrats.

Yes and they are with The democrats today. These war Republicans do not endorse Trump. Because Trump is an outsider to the Congressional Military Industrial Complex.

Are you anti-war, then? If so, I certainly respect such a position. Personally, I would like for all of the overseas United States military bases to be closed and all of the military personnel overseas brought back to the United States.
Aye! We could use the untold billions on Americans. We could all have health care. We could feed and cloth all of the poor. We could fix our infrastructure. We could have world peace. So many things we could have!
 

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
Seems like a good opportunity to post my favorite case against political involvement(it has not, to date, persuaded me to not vote, but I think it is a solid case made against it):

David Lipscomb quoting B.U. Watkins in Lipscomb’s book, On Civil Government: Its Origin, Mission, and Destiny, and the Christian's Relation to It.

“One of the signs of the great Apostacy, was the union of Church and State. Its chosen symbol was a woman upon the back of a seven headed and ten horned beast. It is almost uniformly admitted, among American Protestants, that this is a well chosen symbol to represent the absurd, and unnatural union of Church and State. It is generally conceded, that the woman represents the Church, and the beast the old Roman civil government. This being true, it would appear far more natural for her to be riding the beast, than for him to have his locomotion promoted by the help of the woman! When the State comes forward and proffers its assistance, and the Church voluntarily accepts of such help, it might be a question, which would be the most to blame; the Church for accepting, or the State for offering such assistance. But when the Church gives, unasked, her power to the beast, no excuse can reasonably be pleaded. If the State supporting the Church, is called an adulterous union, I am unable to see, why the union is not equally intimate, and criminal, when the Church supports the State, by participating in all its responsibilities. When the Church offers her fellowship, and co-operation in framing all the laws of the land, and in choosing its judicial and executive officers - when even her members refuse not to become legislators, and are even forward to fill all the offices of human governments, I cannot see, but the relation between church and State, is as intimate as ever, and just as illegal. Ezekiel chided the ancient Hebrews for seeking such union with the nations; and he compares Israel to a woman of the lowest infamy. It is exceedingly painful to me, to see how aptly these symbols of John and Ezekiel apply to modern professors. But how greatly would I rejoice, if the reformation of the 19th century would arise and put on her beautiful garments, and show herself to be the true spouse of Christ. May the good Lord grant that this noble brotherhood, that I so dearly love, may soon see the whole truth! But here, I am met with the objection, that these institutions are ordained of God. And he who resists them resists an ordinance of God, and shall receive punishment. Let me here pause, and remark, that I would sooner be understood as taking the popular view of this passage, rather than appear to countenance any kind of war. Nothing is further from my intention. But the fact of civil government being ordained of God, is no proof of Divine approbation. So long as it can be clearly shown that he has ordained that one sinner should punish another, so long as we read in Isaiah, that Cyrus was sent against Babylon, although he knew not God, so long as we find it not difficult to admit the application of the above passage, to civil government, whether such be its meaning or not. To make the admission saves much time, and leaves the argument much more compact. Something is gained and nothing lost by granting all we can to our opponents. That God can overrule sin, without being responsible for its commission, and without having any complicity with it, is a thing so plain, that to turn aside to explain it would almost be an insult to those for whom these columns are written. Let a hint suffice. Pharaoh was raised up by God for a certain purpose, although his behavior was far from being approved of God. With a few axioms I will close this article. Axiom 1st, No man has the right of making laws for his own government. For such a right would include the double absurdity of making him independent of God, and responsible only to himself! Axiom 2nd. A republican government is one in which power is thought to be delegated by the people to their rulers, in their act of voting. Axiom 3rd. But a man cannot delegate a power he himself does not possess. Hence, INFERENCE 1st. As man has no inherent legislative power, he cannot transfer it to another. Hence, INFERENCE 2nd. Voting is therefore a deception, and a sham, making a deceiver of him, who votes, and a dupe of him who fancies himself the recipient of delegated power.”
My favorite is Origen's defence of Christianity against Celsus (Contra Celsum, written around 247 AD).

Celsus had attacked Christianity in writing Logos Alēthēs.

One of his three main attacks was that the Christian faith was dangerous to the nation because Christians refused to involve themselves in the politics of the Roman Empire (by this time people would vote...not for emperor, of course...and hold public office.

Before the Roman Catholic Church (before that marriage of church and state) Christians refrained from politics, and if able from military service. The reason was they viewed themselves as belonging not to the nation but to a people called to seperate from the World in such matters....kinda like the anabaptists without withdrawing from the community.

Celsus viewed this refusal to participate in the government to be a danger to the nation itself. Part of this was he considered it unpatriotic. But the main argument was one of duty- citizens have a duty to be a participant in the politics of a nation.

Origen argued that Christians have those exact same duties but that these are to the church rather than the nation.
 

KenH

Well-Known Member
We could use the untold billions on Americans. We could all have health care. We could feed and cloth all of the poor. We could fix our infrastructure.

Balance the federal budget and stop increasing the national debt first.
 

KenH

Well-Known Member
Liz Cheney announced today that her father, former Vice President Dick Cheney, will also vote for Vice President Kamala Harris.

May the tribe of those pejoratively called "RINOs" by the acolytes of Donald Trump greatly increase in number between now and November 5th.
 

MMDAN

Member
Sad. But not unexpected (she was basically kicked out of the GOP).

I understand why Christians support the GOP. I don't agree, but I get it. But to see a professing Christian supporting the DNC is sad. It shows just how far Christianity has fallen in our nation.
There are genuine Christians and there are "nominal" or pseudo Christians. There are genuine believers and there are make believers.
 

MMDAN

Member
Wow! Staunch conservative, Liz Cheney, has endorsed Kamala Harris for president.

“I don’t believe that we have the luxury of writing in candidates’ names, particularly in swing states,” she said. “As a conservative, as someone who believes in and cares about the Constitution, I have thought deeply about this. Because of the danger that Donald Trump poses, not only am I not voting for Donald Trump, but I will be voting for Kamala Harris.”

- rest of article at Republican Liz Cheney endorses Kamala Harris
I could NEVER vote for Harris! Under Biden/Harris we have seen near record high inflation and crime, an illegal immigration invasion of America along with continued protests and war. If a 1.4% inflation rate along with a record high stock market long with less war and a much more secure border is considered danger then bring it on under Trump!
 
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