Republicans are the modern day equivalent of the Scribes and Pharasees

In conclude, then, you take issue with the original post. Unless, of course, you think Democrats also are "the modern day equivalent of scribes and Pharisees."

 

Political party? No. Voting patterns? Yes. Though it would be incorrect to say that a vote for a Republican is always the right thing. The values, ideals, and character of the person mean much more. OTOH, I don't know of any Democrat who professes ideals that I believe are consistent with biblical or constitutional principles.

The welfare state isn't consistent with either the US Constitution nor the NT. Nowhere in the teachings of Christ or the NT will you find the notion taught that Christians should support the confiscation of the property of one group to give to others... who's plight is often the result of their own bad moral choices. Nowhere in the Constitution will you find a federal power to transfer wealth from those who earn it to those who don't.

Forced acceptance of homosexuality by the state isn't.

Allowance and even support of abortion isn't.

Has the GOP done enough on abortion? No. Is the GOP a conservative/libertarian party? Only about 75% which goes a good way to explaining why they haven't done more than they have to secure rights, limit gov't, and dis-empower themselves.

I hate to think about the REAL damage the Democrats could do on a great number of issues if they gain control. OTOH, the GOP clearly needs a loss to cull out some of the liberals who I suspect will jump ship to the Dems- not entirely unlike conservative Dems did when the GOP took over... at least this is what I would hope for.

The GOP lost its 94 idealism and needs a correction.

Ultimately, the only way to truly fix these problems is to reverse what Democrats and liberals openly espouse- the centralization of power. So if you believe in personal responsibility, individual rights, and liberty and that those standards find sound basis in the NT- please explain how you can rationalize a vote for a party whose ideals are directly contradictory to these.

It isn't "Christian" to support Republicans but due to Democratic stands on numerous issues I am not sure how a Christian can justify supporting their candidates.

 

I read an interesting article today also that talked about the Dem strategy for winning.

Their strategy is to attack the Republicans and in particular Bush while offering no agenda of their own.

Why? Could it be that they know Americans are opposed to their ideals?

A GOP loss in November could be just the thing needed to move both parties significantly toward libertarianism. The Dems will more or less have to expose their tax and spend, liberal social activism agendas.

Again, wishful thinking.

BTW, my families on both sides have been Democrats ever since there was such a thing. I would love to vote Democrat again... but it simply isn't the party they voted for... what is left of that party migrated to the GOP when the 60's radicals took over.

 

I have to agree with you on this one. The Republicans have really botched it and probably deserve to lose, but the Democrats are sure not the answer.

 

This thread interests me.

I am really interested in how someone claiming to be a biblical Christian rationalizes a vote for a party that openly professes support for abortion. Do you compartmentalize? Do you argue that the Bible doesn't teach respect for life? Do you somehow deny medical science and biblical inference to claim that the unborn are not "alive"?

For that matter, I am interested in seeing a case presented that Christ or anyone else in the NT taught that the way we should care for the poor is by having gov't go take from someone else to give to them.

As best I remember, the NT model was for Christians to relieve the poor with their own resources... not by using force against others.

If I am wrong here, I'd like to see your rationale.

 

With this, I do agree.

It's not a question of party, it's a question of Biblical principles.

Some Christians put them aside when they enter a voting booth. Others don't.

 

I agree with many points made. However, the Original Post said Republicans are equivalent to the Pharisees. In that they are hypocritical and don't believe in the Gospel. Because of claiming Democrats cannot be Christian!
Again.
I am a Christian, conservative and vote Republican. But I, and imagine most, have never said such things about Democrats! Nor have I ever questioned or said anyone cannot be a Christian! Even a malcontent can come to know our Lord as Savior. Therefore I expect a Christian apology!

It surely must be uplifting for atheists to see Christians finger pointing and condemning each other. As with the original post and maybe in Church? But I wonder how Jesus feels about such things!? I wonder what a person who is trying to make a decision on becoming a Christian must think of such!?



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WHERE VOTING HABITS ARE CONCERNED.

Petra-O IX. Can you show me where the Democratic Party is fighting to ban abortion and/or to overthrow Roe v. Wade?
Can you show me where the Democratic Party is fighting for the sanctity of marriage? Which is recognized as sacred and traditional vows between a man and woman only? Whereas the Democratic Party and Liberals oppose marriage between two men or between two women. As such is an abomination and contrary to traditional family values, I believe.

Can you show me where the Democratic Party is fighting to keep recognition of our Lord and His commandments within the public arena? Can you show where they support a voucher program, which would allow me a partial refund of my taxes, in order to allow the option of sending my child to a private school? As I might consider voting Democrat. Otherwise I highly recommend contacting the Democratic Party to inform they erred with their platform stances. You should also contact the party Leadership to inform them to change their speeches and voting habits.



2004
Florida Atlantic University
Department of Political Science

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OnTheIssues
“Every Political Leader on Every Issue”

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Wikipedia

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I understand not every Democrat or Republican goes directly down party lines. As there are good Democrats as well as good or bad Republicans. But there is a general consensus, platform stance, and voting records! One party is capable of change whereas another is beyond such in certain regards, at this point. Yes I also feel more should have been accomplished. However it takes a consensus of both parties and needed votes. It matters not to me how you vote. But I cannot bring myself to vote for a party who fights for abortion, especially partial birth, on most every account. Along with a host of other issues. This is however my opinion and in no way does such imply anyone is any more or less Christian!!

Such things are for our Lord Jesus to decide alone!

In Christ, Ralph:jesus::1_grouphug:

 

Possibly the biggest difference between the two parties are the demands of those who vote for them. Democratic voters excuse the behavior of people like Clinton, Frank, Studd, et al. They circled the wagons with great effectiveness to snuff out questions about their fundraising.

Foley, Gingrich, Livingston, and DeLay are all examples of conservative intolerance for misbehavior. For that matter, you can add Ralph Reed.

The only national figure I am aware of that Democratic/liberal voters thought had transgressed so grieviously that they deserved abandonment is Lieberman.

 

How so?

That sounds like politics, not morals.

How have conservatives abandonned him? Who is he being paid the big bucks to influence, liberals & progressives?

DeLay was renominated to office - not exactly a sign of intolerance.

We'll see how he fares.

Are you saying no Democrats ever resigned or were not elected because of similar investigations that your guys faced?

 

Has Delay been convicted of anything yet?

 

None are still in office and didn't survive long after their moral problems surfaced.

Only an abject idiot would believe that Gingrich would quit because of the set backs in one off year election.

He is nothing if not a long term strategian.

Livingston was damaged goods. He went to work in the only thing he has any real skill at... but Republican voters abandoned him and party tops couldn't save him... compare the excusal of Clinton by Democratic voters and tops alike.

Did I miss the actual conviction? OTOH, he withdrew knowing that those who he needed to support him wouldn't be blind to the scandal... especially if the charges are even remotely valid.

Reed compromised principle.

There is room for repentance and forgiveness. I wouldn't be surprised if Gingrich makes a strong comeback, especially if the Dems do well this fall. But he will have to be convincing... Dems don't demand that their politicians repent much less be convincing about it.

Ever? No. Gary Hart comes to mind but that was a long time ago... He btw was nowhere near as immoral as Clinton and Dems defended him to the death. Condit also comes to mind but alot of people thought he had something to do with a murder and if I remember right his district was trending Republican anyway.

The Dems sold their soul to keep Clinton in office... though the negotiating process seems to have been going on for awhile.

OTOH, I am not aware of a Republican that has gotten away with anything like that since the "Religious Right" became defined by their opposition to liberalism and abandonment by the Democratic party in the 70's and 80's.

 

It seems that folks like Daisy convicted him before they actually had anything to charge him with.

It is virtually criminal to disagree with a liberal.

 

They resigned from office, not from their political party. I think that Delay survived long after his moral problems surfaced, but it was only after he was indicted for criminal problems that he resigned. As far as I know, he is still active in the Grand Ole Party.

Ha, ha - abusively poisoning the well (linkie) with that comment - "if you disagree with me you are an abject idiot".

Not just set backs but a major setback for which he may have been responsible - he had predicted that the Republicans would gain 30 seats, but they lost 5.

Dan Schnur is an idiot you say?

What moral problems are you pretending did him in?

No one disagrees with that, but what has that to do with his not being tolerated? Oh! a red herring!

What!!! I thought you said he had been abandoned as intolerable by the conservatives!!

Hmm, maybe you have special meaning for "abandon"...

Let's see...Livingston excoriated Clinton for his sexual indiscretion all the while he was himself indiscreet. The voters didn't abandon him, he abandoned them when he was exposed as a philandering hypocrite - he quit.

Now the conservatives are flocking to pay him to lobby for them - some abandonment.

Did I say he was convicted or are you merely pretending that I did so you can act all agrieved? What I actually said was that he was renominated. Do you not understand the distinction between "renominated" and "convicted"? The Republicans voted FOR him, not against him - how is that abandonment?

He was indicted and two former aides of his were convicted, so it's remotely possible that the charges are valid; we shall see.

Delay had to resign from the Majority Leadership despite efforts to change the rules on his behalf from his non-abandoning colleagues.

But has he been abandoned as you maintain? Is he not tolerated by conservatives still?

Has Gingrich repented or asked forgiveness? Will that matter if the Dems do well?

Defended him who? To the death? They're both still alive.

Hmm, but he wasn't even indicted, was he? The district may (or not) have been trending Republican "anyway", but while Condit lost the Democratic nomination, a Democrat got the seat and has it still.

The Repubs sold their soul (if they ever had one, that's not clear) long ago.

Gotten away with anything like what? Ambiguous much? If the Democratic Party abandoned the religious right by embracing civil rights, too bad, it was the right thing to do.

Yeah right, folks like Daisy, but not Daisy herself. Nice smear job, Scott - good use of a standard Republican tactic.

 

Ralph III, Your final statement is quite a contridiction to how you generalized and painted all parties with a broad brush.

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Republicans are against abortion. Democrats and Liberals are for it.

Republicans are for family tradition and sanctity of marriage. Democrats and Liberals support gay marriage and such issues.

Republicans are against euthanasia. Liberals apparently are for such.

We strive to keep our Lord's authority recognized within the Government and by our Representatives. Liberals would like to remove all references to our Lord within the public.

We would like some/any Christian influence within the schools for our children. To offset the secular, atheistic and many pagan things taught. Or at least the choice of a partial refund of our tax dollars. In order to be able to afford sending our children to a private Christian school. The Democrats and Liberals will not tolerate any such thing!
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Republicans have been in power for over six years and have talked a good game during pre-elections but manage to put abortian issues, gay marriage and and all typical pro Christian issues on the back burner after the elections and as you said in your last post, not all Republicans or Democrats go down party lines. Your links did provide some info on how certain Democrats and Republicans stand on the issues but yet it was not completely detailed on what and how all the other Democrats or Republicans stand . You have even stated that their is a GENERAL CONSENSUS (That means, you did in fact generalize). I have registered as a Republican for the last 18 years and have mostly voted that way but have voted Independently on some occassions. I owe no allegience to any particular Political party , none have been proved trustworthy of my allegience. The one thing that cannot be denied is that their is a lot of hypocracy from all Political groups.
As far as providing proof for your asssertions on the Democrats , I am afraid the the preponderance of the evidence falls upon you since you have implied that they are against Christian values.

 

Petra-O IX.

The OP stated, Republicans are equivalent to the Pharisees because they are hypocritical and don't believe in the Gospel. As Republicans claim Democrats cannot be Christian.

Again, I am a Christian and have never made such claims! Therefore a Christian apology is due.



Anyone can be a Christian as I have stated many times. This does not mean a person is necessarily standing for the Lord's word or serving as a good Christian example, in certain instances! But in no way does it mean you cannot be a Christian as the OP "broadly" stated and I protested!!!

I then stated numerous Democratic stances which are contrary to the Lord's word. Most notably in regards to Abortion! Which is in stark contrast to the Republican party, of which I am. This again to dismiss the notion Republicans cannot be Christian as he stated!

It was the OP whom "painted" the "broad" picture and indeed, lie. I protested that notion only the OP wishes now to ignore or hide? I challenged the gentleman with the TRUTH. But cannot help if there are those who simply wish to ignore such. My main point was in taking issue that Republicans, Democrats or anyone, for that matter, cannot be or become a Christian. I do not question peoples stated faith in our Lord! These things I made clear in my very FIRST sentence and many times in the past. It has been my biggest gripe to see on a Christian forum. As only Jesus can know a man's heart and He alone stands as our Judge.



You then accused me of making false statements in regards to the Democratic party! You claim I offer 0% facts to back up what I was saying. It was you, along with OP, that then painted the "broad" "picture" in saying "they are all alike" and "change with the wind". It is something that you are pointing at me now, in this regards. Though again, I clearly stated in my FIRST sentence that I rejected such notions!

You also encouraged StraightAndNarrow not to give a due Christian apology. All the above things are shown in your original post.

Petra-O IX, Please show where I have ever said Democrats "have no Christian values"!!!! I pointed out the greatest differences between the two parties and thus why I vote Republican. All of which everyone knows! Unless you have just fallen off a turnip truck. But just to suit you, I offered numerous and solid organizations statements in regards. I also listed the Democratic Party's stated stances themselves! All of which completely backs up what I said.
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It was not me who was doing the "broad" "painting" Petra-O IX! So stop trying to portray that! Again look at your original post and StraightAndNarrows original post! Then look at my original post, FIRST SENTENCE INDEED, I reject such! OR look at my numerous followups! Secondly, there is no contradiction on my behalf. I stand by everything I have said and stated. I have followed such up with actual facts and as stated with the Democratic platform and leadership! Check out the thread "Democrats switch, shoot down Senate vote on abortion transport bill". Pretty much says it all. Democratic party stands for abortion, Republican party stands against abortion. Democratic party is against parental notification, Republican party is for parental notification as that thread addresses. Vote went 93% Rep. For, while 85% Dem. against.http://www.bpnews.net/bpnews.asp?ID=24087

I have changed nothing nor contradicted anything. It is my opinion the Dem. party is beyond change at this point. It is my opinion there are some good Democrats as well as some good and bad Republicans. It is my opinion and disappointment that the Republicans have not done more. But it still takes help from others, 'consensus', in order to pass legislation.

But there is no way I will vote Democratic party. As they "PROUDLY" stand for abortion at every opportunity.

You are simply being silly with this statement. General consensus, in regards to a Parties stated stances and as followed up with their voting records. The Dem. party stands united and in favor of the rights to abortion at every opportunity. They effectively can block Rep. attempts to make change. As clearly shown in many past votes and with one I just pointed out for you! Check out the voting records yourself, good grief!

Yes there is quite a bit of hypocrisy and actually very few politicians I can stomach myself! But again you have to check their stated platform, goals, and voting records. Again one party is capable of making change in certain aspects whereas one is not! LASTLY, IS ABORTION a Christian "value"?? Is Abortion something which God "PROUDLY" supports as Democratic Party states and shows!?

NO! It is a crime against God and destructive for all involved! It is a tragedy no woman or baby should have to face.


In Christ, Ralph

take care:godisgood:

 

Clinton was found in contempt of court in the Jones case.

 

Clinton was impeached, censured, and disbarred. Sheeeesh, check yer facts, SAN.

You know, after reading the thread where known conservatives here have praised the resignation of a degenerate republican, and prayed for charges, and not knowing of one liberal here to denounce Ted Kennedy, it appears the liberals are the bad guys.

And also, (I'm not going to go thru this thread to find out if it's allready been said, but my bible tells me the Pharisees denied the resurrection, and denied Christ as THE savior. How dare anyone throw that name around here.