Rev. Charles Finney

[Ben W]

Ray,

I had the opportunity to have a look at Calvinism this year, all that I can see that it is - Five Point Calvinism is an excuse not to evangalise Christ. We had a Five Point Calvanistic Baptist church in my town which shut down recently. No one had given there life to Christ in many years and the numbers just petered out. People can rip on Arminian churches all they like, yet it is them that are getting the converts from a non Christian backround

 

[Ray Berrian]

Ben W,

Thanks for your thoughts. It is always a sorry condition when a church closes its doors. I am not a Pentecostal, but they open their arms to the Presence of the Spirit rather than merely bowing to a creed. No one wants to hear a sermon on dead orthodoxy, or what some think is orthodoxy. Christ is alive and His ministry continues. Praise God!

 

[Eric B]

Why do some consider Finney's teachings heretical? Can someone post an example of his teachings that shows this?

He taught stuff like "the sinner saves himself". You can search for that in his writings somewhere. That is way over the top, and really did not help the cause of Arminianism. Even if one may claim it does not really mean what is sounds like, still, that would be a bad way of putting it.

 

[Ray Berrian]

He taught stuff like "the sinner saves himself".

Eric, you and I both know that Calvinists have some idea of the meaning of Ephesians 2:8-9.

Rev. Charles Finney was a professor and President of a conservative theological seminary. Your idea above is hearsay, and an untrue and hurtful rumor. The man was a preacher of the Book and would not have even thought of this untruth.

We will not accept your statement, without author, book title and page reference.

 

[The Undiscovered Country]

What is it about a certain brand of evangelicalism that seems to want to rip anyone to shreads who does agree with thewm exactly doctrinally? I share some concerns over Finney's reported beliefs but the tenor of the article in the link is not simply higlighting issues with his theology but rather attempting a full blown asissination-and this on someone who lived over one hundred years ago and is generally cited by believers in terms of specifc quotes or his work rather than his theology.

This sems to be a wider problem. I have seen too many character assasinations of present day leaders on the basis of 'they said 'xxx...' on 24 June 1983' and 'they said 'yyy....' on 9 May 1993' rather than on thier overall work and fruit.

Yes let's stand up for the truth but let's also stand up for the love of Christ by not straining gnats and swallowing camels.

 

[scooter]

Just read his systematic theology and other writings and you will see why some vehemently object to Finney's work. Personally, I don't think this is a case of straining gnats. Objections to Finney typically depend on one's view of soteriology. Finney was an Arminian to the nth degree. If you are sympathetic to that view, you will be puzzled about the attacks. On the other hand, if you have Calvinistic leanings you will have a different view.

 

[Eric B]

Eric, you and I both know that Calvinists have some idea of the meaning of Ephesians 2:8-9.

Rev. Charles Finney was a professor and President of a conservative theological seminary. Your idea above is hearsay, and an untrue and hurtful rumor. The man was a preacher of the Book and would not have even thought of this untruth.

We will not accept your statement, without author, book title and page reference.

OK, so I got some of his statements confused with Sam Jones. ("you convert yourself..and God regenerates you"). While Calvinists often caricature our position like that, it is not true, and thus a horrible way of putting it.
What Finney said was that justification by faith alone through grace alone was a "different gospel that would inhibit moral reformation (Finney's Systematic Theology, p.170ff). One of his popular sermns was "Sinners Bound to Change Their Own Hearts".

 

[billwald]

The aftermath of Finney was Mormonism.

 

[Ray Berrian]

billwald,

You said,

The aftermath of Finney was Mormonism.

This is like saying the Catholic Reformation followed the Protestant Reformation, only some Catholics and some Protestants are saved souls. Christianity is the same religion; the faith of Rev. Finney was Christian while Mormonism is another religion. I remember studying the major cults in seminary and Mormonism is one of them.

You and Eric might not like all you read about his ideas but this does not destroy his sonship with Jesus Christ our Lord.

Finney and Mormonism are poles apart, in fact light years apart from each other.

 

[padredurand]

The only connection between Finney and Mormonism was that Finney and Joseph Smith spent time in Western NY. You may question points of Finney's theology but he never claimed to have read secret books he found buried on a hillside.

Finney spent 7 weeks in Rome NY in 1855. Several months later Rev WE Knox, pastor of the Presbyterian congregation wrote, "A very considerable number of persons were hopefully converted, chiefly the youth of the congregation. I mentioned the number in my letter to the N.Y. Evangelist at between fifty and sixty; but I think, in better investigation, it may safely be rated at seventy. These converts, almost without exception, appear well, and are evidently growing in religious experience and knowledge. A spirit of inquiry still remains to a considerable degree."