Revelation 12:1-6 - Who is the Woman?

[Cathode]

I did not know that nations could sin. Here all this time I thought that it was humans that did that.

You are so desperate to save your view that you start twisting clear scripture. You are as lost as a ball in tall grass.

Paul was about the Jews thinking that their nationality made them righteous, he is talking about there being no advantage in that. All nations Jew, Gentile have fallen short.
Important you read in context.

 

[Oseas3]

Paul was about the Jews thinking that their nationality made them righteous, he is talking about there being no advantage in that. All nations Jew, Gentile have fallen short.
Important you read in context.

When Paul Apostle saw the idolatries and DEPRAVITY of the Church of Rome, he warned by written the Church, saying : Romans 1:18-32

18 The wrath of GOD is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the Truth-the Word of GOD-in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of GOD is manifest in them; for GOD hath shewed it unto them.

20 For the invisible things of GOD from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal Power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

21 Because that, when they knew GOD, they glorified Him not as GOD, neither were thankful; but became vain in their IMAGINATIONS, and their FOOLISH heart was darkened.

22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools(MAD),

23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible GOD into an IMAGE made like to corruptible MAN, ...(like the defuncts beatified by the demonic vicarivs filii dei, filii of Devil- defunct madre teresa, and fatima, among countless others defuncts).

24 Wherefore GOD also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

25 Who changed the Truth of GOD into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

26 For this cause GOD gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; MEN with MEN (even abusing of little boys as seen in Canada, in fact all over the world), working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

28 And even as they did not like to retain GOD in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

30 Backbiters, haters of GOD, despiteful, proud, boasters, INVENTORS of EVIL things, disobedient to parents,

31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

32 Who knowing the Judgment of GOD, that they which commit such things are worthy of DEATH, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Unfortunately you believe in the satanic catholic doctrines invented by the vicarivs filii dei, filii of Diabo et caterva, I mean the pedophiles and satanic priests which abuse even of the children as seen in Canada, in fact occurs all over the world.

Do you believe in devils, in demons, the same ones in which entered the pigs which JESUS cast them out of the man of Gadarah around 2000 years ago, and entered the pederast priests, cardinals and popes, the main leaders of the Roman Catholic Church, as wrote Paul Apostle, and the same unclean spirits of demons entered also in their followers, the earth is infested with catholic sodomites, spiritists, and is even infiltrating false evangelicals, the tares.

But now ALL shall be cast into the lake of fire by the Word of GOD. The Word is GOD, self-executable.
Get ready

 

[taisto]

You can be saved after you fall into a hole, or saved from falling into a hole in the first place.

Mary was saved before she could fall into sin, that way she could conceive Jesus from her sinless flesh.

That is why her spirit was rejoicing in God Her Saviour. God saved her from sin and the dominion of Satan, her sinlessness made her a real enemy of Satan. Because her seed would destroy Satan’s dominion.

God had created perfect sinless human beings before, Adam and Eve for instance, and this was done for Mary because of her particular mission. To conceive and bear a divine sinless son to redeem the world and destroy the dominion of Satan.

The Almighty truly did do great things for her, as she states in Scripture.

There is simply nothing in the Bible that gives us any support to your claim. You are expressing a tradition that is not expressed in the Bible. You are parroting your church tradition, not God and His word.

 

[taisto]

Mary is Immaculately conceived, that’s how she could conceive Jesus in her womb and Jesus be her seed, flesh of her flesh, and not pass on any stain of sin.

The Immaculate Conception of Mary was God putting enmity between satan and the woman, and by extension her seed Jesus and Satan’s seed, those fallen generations under Adam and Eve.

Mary was Satan’s enemy from her conception, as God prophecied in Gen 3, saved from any sin, personal or inherited, otherwise she would not be able to conceive Jesus in her womb.

Mary conceived Jesus, she was not implanted, that’s silliest thing I’ve heard yet.

I bolded the unbiblical statement you made. There is zero scripture to say that Mary's mom had an immaculate conception. The logical process is that every woman in Mary's lineage going back to Eve, before the fall, would have to be sinless in order for your claim to be true.

You are sharing a non-biblical tradition that came along after Mary's death from your church making things up.

If Mary (and all the women in her lineage before her) was sinless then she would never have died. Sin causes death. A sinless person would not die.

The mother in Revelation 12 is the church, not Jesus earthly mom.

 

[Silverhair]

Paul was about the Jews thinking that their nationality made them righteous, he is talking about there being no advantage in that. All nations Jew, Gentile have fallen short.
Important you read in context.

You are denying clear scripture to hold to the traditions of the RCC. That is just bad theology

@Cathode you need to look at the context if you want to find the truth of scripture

Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,
Rom 3:22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference;
Rom 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Rom 3:24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,
Rom 3:25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed,
Rom 3:26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

God forgives the sins of people not nations, He passed over sins of people not nations, He justifies people that believe in Christ Jesus not nations. Nations do not sin people do.

So yes @Cathode you should look at context.

 

[Cathode]

I bolded the unbiblical statement you made. There is zero scripture to say that Mary's mom had an immaculate conception. The logical process is that every woman in Mary's lineage going back to Eve, before the fall, would have to be sinless in order for your claim tone true.

No, God promised after the fall that he would put enmity between satan and the woman. Satan attacked through a woman, God restored through a woman.
Eve and all her progeny were under Satan’s dominion.
Mary was saved by God from sin so that her seed, conceived of her would save the world.

You are sharing a non-biblical tradition that came along after Mary's death from your church making things up.

If Mary (and all the women in her lineage before her) was sinless then she would never have died. Sin causes death. A sinless person would not die.

Mary isn’t dead, she is both Body and Soul in Heaven. If you can point to her grave, every Catholic and Orthodox Church member would like to know, believe me.

The mother in Revelation 12 is the church, not Jesus earthly mom.

Catholics see Mary as The Ark of the New Covenant.

The special purpose of The Ark of the Covenant, was to be an Immaculate and fitting Throne of God, so that God could manifest Himself and be among His people.

The Shekinah Glory “ overshadowed “ The Ark of The Covenant, The Holy Spirit “ overshadowed “ Mary at the Incarnation of Jesus in her womb.

The Ark of The Covenant contained 3 things, Manna, the Rod of Aaron ( priestly authority) and Word of God The Ten Commandments.

These were the prefiguements of Jesus, The Manna The Bread of Life, the priestly Authority of High Priest ,the rod of Aaron, Jesus The Eternal Word of God the Ten commandments.

The Ark of the Covenant had to be made to the most exacting requirements and purity instructed by God before he could reside in it.
Even the gold ( symbolising purity ) had to be paid for only in unblemished Passover lamb skins. Estimated to be nearly 200,000 skins. Even how the gold was paid for was important, that’s how pure the Ark had to be.
Pure inside and out covered in Gold inside and out.

God alone made Mary to His standards to be The Ark of The New Covenant so that Jesus had a fitting and pure Throne when He manifested Himself at The Incarnation.
God saved Mary from any impurity, so that she could conceive Jesus in purity to be the unblemished Sacrifice that redeemed the world.

John saw the Ark of the Covenant in Heaven, a woman clothed with the sun, standing on the moon, with a crown of 12 stars.

He “raises the lowly” as Mary says.

Like I echo the scriptures, the Almighty has done great things for her.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

There is simply nothing in the Bible that gives us any support to your claim. You are expressing a tradition that is not expressed in the Bible. You are parroting your church tradition, not God and His word.

Ya saw that did you….you win the prize for recognition!

 

[Oseas3]

There is simply nothing in the Bible that gives us any support to your claim. You are expressing a tradition that is not expressed in the Bible. You are parroting your church tradition, not God and His word.

You are right.
For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, false witness, blasphemies, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts: ... Matthew 15:19
Paul Apostle saw the IDOLATRIES and DEPRAVITY of the Church of Rome, he warned by written the Church, saying : Romans 1:18-32

 

[Oseas3]

No, God promised after the fall that he would put enmity between satan and the woman. Satan attacked through a woman, God restored through a woman.
Eve and all her progeny were under Satan’s dominion.
Mary was saved by God from sin so that her seed, conceived of her would save the world.
Mary isn’t dead, she is both Body and Soul in Heaven. If you can point to her grave, every Catholic and Orthodox Church member would like to know, believe me.
Catholics see Mary as The Ark of the New Covenant.
The special purpose of The Ark of the Covenant, was to be an Immaculate and fitting Throne of God, so that God could manifest Himself and be among His people.
The Shekinah Glory “ overshadowed “ The Ark of The Covenant, The Holy Spirit “ overshadowed “ Mary at the Incarnation of Jesus in her womb.
The Ark of The Covenant contained 3 things, Manna, the Rod of Aaron ( priestly authority) and Word of God The Ten Commandments.
These were the prefiguements of Jesus, The Manna The Bread of Life, the priestly Authority of High Priest ,the rod of Aaron, Jesus The Eternal Word of God the Ten commandments.
The Ark of the Covenant had to be made to the most exacting requirements and purity instructed by God before he could reside in it.
Even the gold ( symbolising purity ) had to be paid for only in unblemished Passover lamb skins. Estimated to be nearly 200,000 skins. Even how the gold was paid for was important, that’s how pure the Ark had to be.
Pure inside and out covered in Gold inside and out.
God alone made Mary to His standards to be The Ark of The New Covenant so that Jesus had a fitting and pure Throne when He manifested Himself at The Incarnation.
God saved Mary from any impurity, so that she could conceive Jesus in purity to be the unblemished Sacrifice that redeemed the world.
John saw the Ark of the Covenant in Heaven, a woman clothed with the sun, standing on the moon, with a crown of 12 stars.
He “raises the lowly” as Mary says.
Like I echo the scriptures, the Almighty has done great things for her.

Out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, false witness, blasphemies, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts: ... Matthew 15:19
The satanic Roman Catholic Church changed the glory of the uncorruptible GOD into an IMAGE made like to corruptible MAN, ...(like the defuncts beatified by the demonic vicarivs filii dei, filii of Devil- defunct madre teresa, and fatima, among countless others defuncts).

And Paul Apostle saw the IDOLATRIES and DEPRAVITY of the Church of Rome, he warned by written the Church, saying : Romans 1:18-32
Then shall JESUS say unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, YE CURSED, into everlasting fire, prepared for the Devil and his messengers. These shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. Matthew 25:41 and 46.

 

[Cathode]

There is simply nothing in the Bible that gives us any support to your claim.

So God didn’t save Mary? Mary’s words in scripture. “ My Spirit rejoices in God my Saviour “ Mary was saved before Jesus died on the Cross, but because of it.

You are expressing a tradition that is not expressed in the Bible. You are parroting your church tradition, not God and His word

I have been quoting the scripture.

Mary “ conceived “ , she was not implanted, that’s unbiblical.

 

[Oseas3]

So God didn’t save Mary? Mary’s words in scripture. Mary was saved before Jesus died on the Cross, but because of it.

Your thinking is from a human perspective, a stumblingblock, not from GOD's perspective.
Matthew 16:23 - “Get behind me, Satan. You are a stone that could make me stumble, for you are not thinking God’s thoughts but human thoughts.”
Go down to the abyss spirit of Devil, your place is the abyss, the bottomless pit. Go down Satan.

 

[Oseas3]

Paul was about the Jews thinking that their nationality made them righteous, he is talking about there being no advantage in that. All nations Jew, Gentile have fallen short.
Important you read in context.

JESUS has already CURSED by written all those at His left hand, as the idolater Papacy and his followers, with their devilish and idolater religious system developed THROUGH/BY THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH since the church in Rome apostatized, and has been ruled by the Devil. Yeah, the apostate church of Rome is CURSED by my Lord JESUS. His Word for you and for the apostate church of Rome you attend is: Depart from me, you CURSED, into everlasting fire, prepared for the Devil and his messengers. Yes, CURSED for ever.

 

[taisto]

So God didn’t save Mary? Mary’s words in scripture. “ My Spirit rejoices in God my Saviour “ Mary was saved before Jesus died on the Cross, but because of it.



I have been quoting the scripture.

Mary “ conceived “ , she was not implanted, that’s unbiblical.

If Mary was sinless then God had no need to atone for her sins and save her. Her own holiness would make her better than both Adam and Eve while they were in the garden. She would be alive and living amongst us sinners today as would all the mothers who gave birth to the perfect offspring from Eve to Mary.

Do you see the utter silliness of your claim that Mary was born sinless? If she was sinless, she would never, ever, need a Redeemer to save her.

Cathode, even the enemies of God quote scripture. But, they quote it out of context as a prooftext for enticement to sin.
Your church created an idol, many years (centuries) after Mary and Jesus walked on this earth. They raised up an idol of Mary and said their followers to worship her as an added pantheon to God. It is a tradition that has no basis in the Bible and this has been clearly shown to you. You need to question your churches tradition because they are taking your eyes off your Redeemer and calling you to worship a sinner like yourself when they call you to worship Mary.

I see no reason to continue this dialogue. The discussion regarding Revelation 12 has run it's course. Thank you for your input.

 

[Salty]

This thread is closed at the request of the OP