Revelation 20!

[DHK]

Read what I said DHK. Your brain is not in your fingers! At least I hope not! I said:

The Church is the Temple of GOD just as each of those who are the Redeemed by Jesus Christ!

No, not in this dispensation. The church did not replace Israel. That is that heretical replacement theology again which I could write a book about. If anything is heretical that is.
In the NT it is the believer that is the NT. You should know this:

1 Corinthians 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
--The Holy Spirit dwells within each one of us. We are God's temple, each one of us individually; not corporately. We do not have ownership, but rather Christ does. He paid the ransom price with his own blood. We belong to him.

Ephesians 2:11-22
11. Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12. That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13. But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14.For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15. Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16. And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
17. And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
18. For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
19. Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20. And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21. In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22. In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

This is completely taken out of context, as has been mentioned many times. It is a letter written by Paul to the Ephesians. The "mystery" is the unity of Gentile and Jewish believers. The wall is the wall that was between them. It has been removed now. Now there can, through Christ, be unity between Jews and Gentiles, something that never existed before--it now exists because of Christ. It speaks of unity--specific to the Jews and Gentiles in the church of Ephesus.

1 Corinthians 6:19. What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

Already addressed.

 

[OldRegular]

Originally Posted by OldRegular
Read what I said DHK. Your brain is not in your fingers! At least I hope not! I said:

The Church is the Temple of GOD just as each of those who are the Redeemed by Jesus Christ!

No, not in this dispensation. The church did not replace Israel. That is that heretical replacement theology again which I could write a book about. If anything is heretical that is.

I am not a replacement person DHK I am a continuation parson. The Church is obviously a continuation of Spiritual Israel as Paul clearly shows in Romans 11 and Ephesians 2. But If I called pre-trib-dispensational doctrine a heresy you would eagerly have me banned. You might even give me a few more demerits for this paragraph.

In the NT it is the believer that is the NT. You should know this:

1 Corinthians 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
--The Holy Spirit dwells within each one of us. We are God's temple, each one of us individually; not corporately. We do not have ownership, but rather Christ does. He paid the ransom price with his own blood. We belong to him.

[/QUOTE]I have already said that the Believer is the Temple of the Holy Spirit. I am happy you agree!

This is completely taken out of context, as has been mentioned many times. It is a letter written by Paul to the Ephesians. The "mystery" is the unity of Gentile and Jewish believers. The wall is the wall that was between them. It has been removed now.

You need to explain that to revmwc.

Now there can, through Christ, be unity between Jews and Gentiles, something that never existed before--it now exists because of Christ. It speaks of unity--specific to the Jews and Gentiles in the church of Ephesus.

Trying to restrict that doctrine to the church at Ephesus is Nonsense. Paul is talking to all churches the total number of the redeemed!

Ephesians 2:11-22
11. Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12. That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13. But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14.For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15. Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16. And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
17. And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
18. For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
19. Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20. And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21. In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22. In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

You are simply wrong. This passage from Ephesians clearly shows that the Church is the continuation of Spiritual Israel not a replacement as shown in Verses 14-16: For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

And then there are Verses 19-22: Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
Only one blinded by pre-trib-dispensationalism would deny that the above Scripture is describing the Church as an habitation of God through the Spirit.

 

[DHK]

I am not a replacement person DHK I am a continuation parson. The Church is obviously a continuation of Spiritual Israel as Paul clearly shows in Romans 11 and Ephesians 2. But If I called pre-trib-dispensational doctrine a heresy you would eagerly have me banned. You might even give me a few more demerits for this paragraph.

I am not attacking you personally.
Notice the difference here:
1. You have a board with maybe half or more that are dispensational--obviously not heretical.
2. Replacement theology was declared a heresy by more than one moderator a number of years ago, and has always been considered as heresy on this board. There is no argument here. It is not you; it is the theology.
3. As far as I am concerned (and my observation of some others) your position does not differ greatly, if at all, from those who believe in replacement theology.

Trying to restrict that doctrine to the church at Ephesus is Nonsense. Paul is talking to all churches the total number of the redeemed!

Try putting yourself in the place of the Ephesians. They would not be thinking of "all the redeemed." The letter was written to them. As the letter was written to them, that is the church at Ephesus, it is applicable to other biblical local churches, not some "universal church."

Ephesians 2:11-22
11. Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12. That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13. But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14.For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15. Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16. And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
17. And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
18. For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
19. Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20. And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21. In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22. In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

You are simply wrong. This passage from Ephesians clearly shows that the Church is the continuation of Spiritual Israel not a replacement as shown in Verses 14-16: For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

Israel is nowhere mentioned in this entire passage. Neither are the aliens in South Dakota, but I can make it work for you.
You are reading into this passage something that is not there.

And then there are Verses 19-22: Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
Only one blinded by pre-trib-dispensationalism would deny that the above Scripture is describing the Church as an habitation of God through the Spirit.

It is describing the local church at Ephesus, and a very apt description it is.
It also describes a biblical local church that has as its foundation: the apostles and Christ as the chief cornerstone.
There is no mention of Israel.
Now about those spaceships? Do you want a reference?

 

[OldRegular]

I am not attacking you personally.
Notice the difference here:
1. You have a board with maybe half or more that are dispensational--obviously not heretical.
2. Replacement theology was declared a heresy by more than one moderator a number of years ago, and has always been considered as heresy on this board. There is no argument here. It is not you; it is the theology.
3. As far as I am concerned (and my observation of some others) your position does not differ greatly, if at all, from those who believe in replacement theology.

Try putting yourself in the place of the Ephesians. They would not be thinking of "all the redeemed." The letter was written to them. As the letter was written to them, that is the church at Ephesus, it is applicable to other biblical local churches, not some "universal church."


Israel is nowhere mentioned in this entire passage. Neither are the aliens in South Dakota, but I can make it work for you.
You are reading into this passage something that is not there.


It is describing the local church at Ephesus, and a very apt description it is.
It also describes a biblical local church that has as its foundation: the apostles and Christ as the chief cornerstone.
There is no mention of Israel.
Now about those spaceships? Do you want a reference?

I call your attention to Verse 2:12.

I know well over half the people on the board are Rapture ready. However if a majority determined the correctness of theology then Islam {1.25 billion} would take first prize and Roman Catholicism come in a strong second {1.1billion}.