Revelation 6:8 interpretation

[evangelist6589]

This question is for dispensationalists. I am not here to argue with others that are not dispensationalist. There are plenty of debates in the Dispensationalist circles to take much of my time reading, rather than debating others. Thank you for respecting this.

Rev 6:8 (NIV)
I looked, and there before me was a pale horse! Its rider was named Death, and Hades was following close behind him. They were given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth.

Rev 6:8 (ESV)
And I looked, and behold, a pale horse! And its rider's name was Death, and Hades followed him. And they were given authority over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword and with famine and with pestilence and by wild beasts of the earth.

I am doing a study on this book and what a very difficult, and complex glorious piece of work this one is. There are about 100,000 commentaries and each person a different interpretation! Anyways I am curious as to the interpretation of the wild beasts mentioned here. Does John mean that God will let loose the Lions, Tigers, Bears and other wild animals to kill people? Does it mean men that act like wild beasts, or does it mean rats? Did you know that the rat carried the bubonic plague which destroyed one third of the population of Europe in the 14th century? Or did you know that typhus killed an estimated 200 million people in four centuries and the cause was fleas living on rats. Rats are not as powerful as Lions, but there are millions of them on the planet, a hundred different species, and I just wonder if God will use them in the end times to fulfill this prophecy. What do you say?


John

 

[beameup]

I you trace all uses of the word thērion throughout Revelation then it is consistently not used in reference to wild animals,
but rather metaphorically of brutal, bestial men, savage, ferocious entities.

 

[revmwc]

This question is for dispensationalists. I am not here to argue with others that are not dispensationalist. There are plenty of debates in the Dispensationalist circles to take much of my time reading, rather than debating others. Thank you for respecting this.

Rev 6:8 (NIV)
I looked, and there before me was a pale horse! Its rider was named Death, and Hades was following close behind him. They were given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth.

Rev 6:8 (ESV)
And I looked, and behold, a pale horse! And its rider's name was Death, and Hades followed him. And they were given authority over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword and with famine and with pestilence and by wild beasts of the earth.

I am doing a study on this book and what a very difficult, and complex glorious piece of work this one is. There are about 100,000 commentaries and each person a different interpretation! Anyways I am curious as to the interpretation of the wild beasts mentioned here. Does John mean that God will let loose the Lions, Tigers, Bears and other wild animals to kill people? Does it mean men that act like wild beasts, or does it mean rats? Did you know that the rat carried the bubonic plague which destroyed one third of the population of Europe in the 14th century? Or did you know that typhus killed an estimated 200 million people in four centuries and the cause was fleas living on rats. Rats are not as powerful as Lions, but there are millions of them on the planet, a hundred different species, and I just wonder if God will use them in the end times to fulfill this prophecy. What do you say?


John

Try these to go with the Revelation passage.
KJV
Jeremiah 15:3 And I will appoint over them four kinds, saith the LORD: the sword to slay, and the dogs to tear, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the earth, to devour and destroy.


Jeremiah 19:7
And I will make void the counsel of Judah and Jerusalem in this place; and I will cause them to fall by the sword before their enemies, and by the hands of them that seek their lives: and their carcases will I give to be meat for the fowls of the heaven, and for the beasts of the earth

Jeremiah 34:20
I will even give them into the hand of their enemies, and into the hand of them that seek their life: and their dead bodies shall be for meat unto the fowls of the heaven, and to the beasts of the earth.


It appears Jeremiah's prophecy will be fulfilled with the book of revelation account. As the tribulation is going so will these be fulfilled. The hunger of the ravaged earth will cause the wild beast to seek food even from humans.

 

[HeirofSalvation]

Yes it appears that by "wild beasts" he simply means "wild beasts" they are set in a list:
1.)hunger
2.)death (in KJV) plague or disease would be accurate... and
3.)wild beasts

I see no reason to assume it means anything more than natural wild beasts...the normative order of the Earth seems to be disrupted...whereas for now..."And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every fowl of the air, upon all that moveth upon the earth, and upon all the fishes of the sea; into your hand are they delivered." Gen. 9:2

It now appears that the wild beasts will, on many levels, no longer fear man as perhaps they "ought". There is a bull (my landlords) in my pasture. He could utterly destroy me if he wasn't afraid of me...yet when he gets out of the pasture...I chase him right back in...running right at him and watching him flee. There is NO physical reason he should run from me whatsoever. I would HATE it if he figured out that he has two 2.5' spears on his head and he outweighs me by about 700 lbs. The world is being turned up-side down in many ways with the natural order of things. Rev's post seems correct.

 

[evangelist6589]

I you trace all uses of the word thērion throughout Revelation then it is consistently not used in reference to wild animals,
but rather metaphorically of brutal, bestial men, savage, ferocious entities.

I dont know as different commentaries disagree with this.

 

[evangelist6589]

Yes it appears that by "wild beasts" he simply means "wild beasts" they are set in a list:
1.)hunger
2.)death (in KJV) plague or disease would be accurate... and
3.)wild beasts

I see no reason to assume it means anything more than natural wild beasts...the normative order of the Earth seems to be disrupted...whereas for now..."And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every fowl of the air, upon all that moveth upon the earth, and upon all the fishes of the sea; into your hand are they delivered." Gen. 9:2

It now appears that the wild beasts will, on many levels, no longer fear man as perhaps they "ought". There is a bull (my landlords) in my pasture. He could utterly destroy me if he wasn't afraid of me...yet when he gets out of the pasture...I chase him right back in...running right at him and watching him flee. There is NO physical reason he should run from me whatsoever. I would HATE it if he figured out that he has two 2.5' spears on his head and he outweighs me by about 700 lbs. The world is being turned up-side down in many ways with the natural order of things. Rev's post seems correct.

A bull? What state are you in? This sounds interesting. But yes imagine if the Lions, and Tiger, Bears, and bulls came down and attacked people. I dont know how they would stand against guns however.

 

[Amy.G]

A very important thing to keep in mind when studying Revelation is that ALL of it is recorded elsewhere in the bible. :thumbsup:

 

[beameup]

I dont know as different commentaries disagree with this.

I don't depend on "commentaries", I depend upon the Holy Spirit.
Make a list of every use of the word within Revelation and see
how it is used in context.

I use an online Bible (KJV) with Strong's (option) within the text.
There are a lot of things that are "taken for granted" that are just plain WRONG.
Errors have been introduced over the decades almost from the very beginning of the Church.

 

[Winman]

A bull? What state are you in? This sounds interesting. But yes imagine if the Lions, and Tiger, Bears, and bulls came down and attacked people. I dont know how they would stand against guns however.

Guns? I remember when I was a kid, my older brother just loved to mess with bees. One day he knocked down a big hornet's nest. Man, I'll never forget those bees coming out of that hive right for the both of us! I was maybe 30 feet in front of my brother and got stung about four or five times, they got all over my brother and stung him over 30 places. It almost killed him, we had to rush him to the hospital and he was there over a week.

If the insects alone got mad at us, it is all over.

Imagine the movie "The Birds" come to real life.

 

[evangelist6589]

I don't depend on "commentaries", I depend upon the Holy Spirit.
Make a list of every use of the word within Revelation and see
how it is used in context.

I use an online Bible (KJV) with Strong's (option) within the text.
There are a lot of things that are "taken for granted" that are just plain WRONG.
Errors have been introduced over the decades almost from the very beginning of the Church.

Then why rely on the KJV? Its an older translation and one not using the latest and greatest manuscript evidences. The KJV is accurate in its theology and certainly can and should be used as an evangelism or open air preaching Bible (as I have done may times). However for deep study such as this, its better to rely on better translations such as the English Standard Version (ESV) and the New International Version (NIV).

 

[evangelist6589]

Guns? I remember when I was a kid, my older brother just loved to mess with bees. One day he knocked down a big hornet's nest. Man, I'll never forget those bees coming out of that hive right for the both of us! I was maybe 30 feet in front of my brother and got stung about four or five times, they got all over my brother and stung him over 30 places. It almost killed him, we had to rush him to the hospital and he was there over a week.

If the insects alone got mad at us, it is all over.

Imagine the movie "The Birds" come to real life.

I never saw that one. Whats it about?

 

[evangelist6589]

A very important thing to keep in mind when studying Revelation is that ALL of it is recorded elsewhere in the bible. :thumbsup:

The book of Daniel. I am reading that one as well. David Jeremiah writes the most interesting commentaries as I am using both of his for the 2 books. Unlike graduate level commentaries that do nothing but put me to sleep, Jeremiah holds my interest.

 

[HeirofSalvation]

Then why rely on the KJV? Its an older translation and one not using the latest and greatest manuscript evidences.

Oh...WOW. I will resist the urge... as it is not the topic of the thread...but these are some bald assertions which could send some people through the roof. AGE??? AGE??? what in the world would the age of the translation matter?

not using the latest and greatest manuscript evidences.

I would actually disagree... but there is an entire section devoted to this stuff. No, I am not some crazy Ruckmanite or anything

 

[Winman]

I never saw that one. Whats it about?

Boy, I must be getting old... The Birds is a 1960s film by Alfred Hitchcock about birds all over the world suddenly becoming violent toward men. It looks dated now, but it is a still a very scary movie, you should rent a DVD. Here is a scene where the birds attack school children from the movie.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hplpQt424Ls

 

[evangelist6589]

Oh...WOW. I will resist the urge... as it is not the topic of the thread...but these are some bald assertions which could send some people through the roof. AGE??? AGE??? what in the world would the age of the translation matter?


I would actually disagree... but there is an entire section devoted to this stuff. No, I am not some crazy Ruckmanite or anything

But why is your opinion better than that of scholars and PHD's whom disagree with you? Whats your educational background?

 

[evangelist6589]

Boy, I must be getting old... The Birds is a 1960s film by Alfred Hitchcock about birds all over the world suddenly becoming violent toward men. It looks dated now, but it is a still a very scary movie, you should rent a DVD. Here is a scene where the birds attack school children from the movie.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hplpQt424Ls

My goodness! Looks scary.

 

[Winman]

My goodness! Looks scary.

It is a scary movie. For it's time the special effects were incredible.

There is one scene where many people are huddled in a restaraunt for safety from the birds and asking why this is happening, one man proclaims it is the beginning of the tribulation and starts quoting prophecy from the Bible. So obviously the writer of this story had considered the scripture we are discussing.

 

[beameup]

Then why rely on the KJV? Its an older translation and one not using the latest and greatest manuscript evidences. The KJV is accurate in its theology and certainly can and should be used as an evangelism or open air preaching Bible (as I have done may times). However for deep study such as this, its better to rely on better translations such as the English Standard Version (ESV) and the New International Version (NIV).

It is "better" to rely on the Holy Spirit. As well, as I understand it, the translators of the King James were spiritual believers, as well as scholars.

A quick scan of the verses, using the Strong's numbers, shows how the word is used throughout Revelation. No need for "deep study".

 

[evangelist6589]

It is a scary movie. For it's time the special effects were incredible.

There is one scene where many people are huddled in a restaraunt for safety from the birds and asking why this is happening, one man proclaims it is the beginning of the tribulation and starts quoting prophecy from the Bible. So obviously the writer of this story had considered the scripture we are discussing.

Very very possible indeed. Not sure how God will fulfill this prophecy, but personally I think it will be good if he used the lions and tigers and others. I am so sick and tired of poachers and their abuse on animals. Its about time the beasts got a meal. God used the Lion to kill the man of God from Judah in Kings, and the Lion did not attack the donkey, nor did the Lion eat the man, he just killed him. God can use animals again.

 

[evangelist6589]

It is "better" to rely on the Holy Spirit. As well, as I understand it, the translators of the King James were spiritual believers, as well as scholars.

A quick scan of the verses, using the Strong's numbers, shows how the word is used throughout Revelation. No need for "deep study".

I have the KJV and use it from time to time. To each his own. Nothing wrong with the translation.