Revelation is not about the FUTURE

[Alan Dale Gross]

The Apostles still saw a future restoration for the kingdom to National israel, just had to learn that until that happens at second coming event, need to be about teaching and preaching Jesus as Lord

Yep. Right. Uh-huh.

I get it. You're saying that in reference to all the Apostles teaching in the Scriptures you quoted...

Which was zero.

So, that's the way it is, is it?

There are Bibles you can Google online, if you don't have one, man.

I just quoted 17 verses that are actually in The New Testament.

And they aren't the first ones.

It makes a difference, if they are in the Bible, or they are not in The Bible at all.

 

[Alan Dale Gross]

The Apostles still saw a future restoration for the kingdom to National israel

"It is very clear both Contextually and Textually that there is no room for a 1000 year Reign of Christ "on earth" after the tribulation.
Not according to Scripture. For the Second Coming of Christ signals the Judgment and the Rapture, not a New Reign of Christ on Earth.

just had to learn that until that happens at second coming event,

"Christ currently Reigns in Heaven with the souls of the martyrs who have died,
and we are also Spiritually Reigning with Christ Currently (Col. 1:13, Rom. 5:17) as Kings and Priests unto our God.

"Though many choose to ignore these Biblical Truths, we cannot lean unto our own understandings and traditions.

"The Word of God is Definitive, Trustworthy, and Explicitly (not implicitly) Teaching the Kingdom of Christ is now.
Everywhere you look in Scripture the Reign of Christ Now, is Evident.

"The parable of the tares in Matthew chapter 13 gives us another sound illustration of this biblical principle.
Jesus gives us this parable, and that there should not be any question about it's interpretation, He Himself interprets it for us!

"We don't even have to search the Scriptures to see what the Symbolism means,
because Jesus Explains the Parable clearly for us so no one can use their own private interpretations.

"He says the wheat (Believers) and the tares (Unbelievers) will remain in the field (World) "Together" until the harvest (End of the World). This is Christ talking! It's not a matter of my interpretation, or of your interpretation, it's clearly Christ's interpretation.
How can we ignore Christ's interpretation simply because of our Church teachings?

"In fact, in the very Parable itself it was asked if the tares should be plucked out so they couldn't choke God's wheat, and God says, NO!

"The tares and the Wheat must stay together until the End of the World,
then the tares Will be Gathered to be Burned, and the wheat Gathered into God's Barn.

"Again, that's not my private interpretation, that's the unadulterated Word of God.

"But Pretribulation Theorists flatly contradict Christ in this, saying,
"NO! The Wheat will be taken out of the field first because God doesn't want His Wheat being beaten up in the horrible time
when these tares rise up in the Tribulation Period to persecute and kill them".

"That plain and simply is a contradiction of GOD. It's confusion!
If we say that the Church has already been taken out of the World before the Tribulation,
then who are these tares persecuting for the Name of Christ (Matt. 24:9) if not Christians? Is the Body of Christ divided? God Forbid!
And what's the purpose in taking out believers if there will still be both Jew and Gentile believers here on Earth still?

"Pretribulation theorists say God doesn't want believers to go through this Wrath, as they're not "appointed to it",
and yet there are believers here going through this wrath and persecuted and killed for Christ's sake.

"It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever! Some Theologians attempt to explain this saying,
"because these will be Jewish believers who will Evangelize the Gentiles".

"But, that was the whole purpose of the Church.

This theory makes the Church's work non effectual by their Doctrine. And how does this change the fact
that they claim the believers were previously Raptured because believers are not appointed to this Wrath?

"The real truth of course is that Jewish and Gentile believers are all one Holy People, one body of Christ, one Church of God. Not two!
Both in "one" Olive tree, not two! There was one Old Testament with Israel, and there is one New Testament with Israel.

"One Name whereby men may Be saved, One Acceptable Time when He took Away the sins of Israel.
It's not a Future Event, it's a Past Event. ...according to Scripture!

So it gets back to that Age Old Question again:

"The Question is not one of Interpretation, the Question is who are we going to believe. God, or our teachers?

"God says the believers and unbelievers will remain together in the World until the End of the World.

"Man says no, that's wrong, the believers will be taken out before the End of the World.
And he teaches that without a single scripture that Actually says that.

"Yes, they will produce a few verses, but "none" of them will "Actually" say
that the Church will be taken out of the World before the tribulation.

"They will "privately interpret" them to mean that, but not one actually says that.

"...How can I say that?

"Because it's a fact, and not one person has ever been able to say it's not, nor produce a single scripture which says these things!
There is no scripture that says the Church will be taken out before the tribulation.

"There are many scriptures (as I've given the one of the wheat and the tares)
which tell us that we will all (both believers and unbelievers),
be here until the End of the World/Age and God won't Pluck one Up because the other is choking it.

"So we have a choice. Believe God, or man.

"I've just given you a few verses, there are many, many more which show the very same thing.

"The Rapture, and the Judgment, is at the End of the World, at the Last Day, not before the Tribulation.

"The 1000 year Reign that Revelation chapter 20 talks about says, the souls "of" the martyrs (those who died),
NOT souls (which could be people), or people here Reigning with Christ "on Earth" in the literal middle eastern city of Jerusalem.

"It says souls "of" the martyred dead, while the rest of the dead lived not again.
NOT one word about living people Reigning "upon Earth" with Christ.

"...He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

"Study scripture carefully leaning upon it's Words alone (Sola Scriptura) and the Holy Spirit Will Guide you into Truth.

"Accept the words of men and of Church traditions and you set yourself up for a great fall by building upon unsound foundation.

"Souls of those who are beheaded for Christ's sake do not rise up out of the Earth to Reign literally in Jerusalem.

"The Saints upon their death immediately go to Heaven to Reign with Christ!

"The teaching that this chapter says souls are literally Reigning on Earth in Jerusalem, is untenable.
But it's repeated so often that those who do not carefully compare Theologians words with the scriptures,
have actually told me that this was explicitly written there,
i.e., they heard it so much that they really think that this verse actually says that.

In Reality John says (the Word of God says) that he saw souls "of" the martyred, Reigning!
He saw the souls of those killed (Beheaded).

"Not Souls (which could be people), and not Martyrs, but the "Souls, of the martyrs!"
And since when does souls of the dead Martyrs Reign on the Earth?

"Why would a soul apart from his body, be Reigning in a literal city in the Middle East?

"These souls Reign in the Jerusalem from above, not in an Earthly Nation, Holy City, or Holy Temple.

"A Spiritual Holy Nation, the Jerusalem from above Galatians 4:26;

"But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all."

From: An Exposition of Revelation Chapter Twenty.

 

[JesusFan]

"It is very clear both Contextually and Textually that there is no room for a 1000 year Reign of Christ "on earth" after the tribulation.
Not according to Scripture. For the Second Coming of Christ signals the Judgment and the Rapture, not a New Reign of Christ on Earth.



"Christ currently Reigns in Heaven with the souls of the martyrs who have died,
and we are also Spiritually Reigning with Christ Currently (Col. 1:13, Rom. 5:17) as Kings and Priests unto our God.

"Though many choose to ignore these Biblical Truths, we cannot lean unto our own understandings and traditions.

"The Word of God is Definitive, Trustworthy, and Explicitly (not implicitly) Teaching the Kingdom of Christ is now.
Everywhere you look in Scripture the Reign of Christ Now, is Evident.

"The parable of the tares in Matthew chapter 13 gives us another sound illustration of this biblical principle.
Jesus gives us this parable, and that there should not be any question about it's interpretation, He Himself interprets it for us!

"We don't even have to search the Scriptures to see what the Symbolism means,
because Jesus Explains the Parable clearly for us so no one can use their own private interpretations.

"He says the wheat (Believers) and the tares (Unbelievers) will remain in the field (World) "Together" until the harvest (End of the World). This is Christ talking! It's not a matter of my interpretation, or of your interpretation, it's clearly Christ's interpretation.
How can we ignore Christ's interpretation simply because of our Church teachings?

"In fact, in the very Parable itself it was asked if the tares should be plucked out so they couldn't choke God's wheat, and God says, NO!

"The tares and the Wheat must stay together until the End of the World,
then the tares Will be Gathered to be Burned, and the wheat Gathered into God's Barn.

"Again, that's not my private interpretation, that's the unadulterated Word of God.

"But Pretribulation Theorists flatly contradict Christ in this, saying,
"NO! The Wheat will be taken out of the field first because God doesn't want His Wheat being beaten up in the horrible time
when these tares rise up in the Tribulation Period to persecute and kill them".

"That plain and simply is a contradiction of GOD. It's confusion!
If we say that the Church has already been taken out of the World before the Tribulation,
then who are these tares persecuting for the Name of Christ (Matt. 24:9) if not Christians? Is the Body of Christ divided? God Forbid!
And what's the purpose in taking out believers if there will still be both Jew and Gentile believers here on Earth still?

"Pretribulation theorists say God doesn't want believers to go through this Wrath, as they're not "appointed to it",
and yet there are believers here going through this wrath and persecuted and killed for Christ's sake.

"It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever! Some Theologians attempt to explain this saying,
"because these will be Jewish believers who will Evangelize the Gentiles".

"But, that was the whole purpose of the Church.

This theory makes the Church's work non effectual by their Doctrine. And how does this change the fact
that they claim the believers were previously Raptured because believers are not appointed to this Wrath?

"The real truth of course is that Jewish and Gentile believers are all one Holy People, one body of Christ, one Church of God. Not two!
Both in "one" Olive tree, not two! There was one Old Testament with Israel, and there is one New Testament with Israel.

"One Name whereby men may Be saved, One Acceptable Time when He took Away the sins of Israel.
It's not a Future Event, it's a Past Event. ...according to Scripture!

So it gets back to that Age Old Question again:

"The Question is not one of Interpretation, the Question is who are we going to believe. God, or our teachers?

"God says the believers and unbelievers will remain together in the World until the End of the World.

"Man says no, that's wrong, the believers will be taken out before the End of the World.
And he teaches that without a single scripture that Actually says that.

"Yes, they will produce a few verses, but "none" of them will "Actually" say
that the Church will be taken out of the World before the tribulation.

"They will "privately interpret" them to mean that, but not one actually says that.

"...How can I say that?

"Because it's a fact, and not one person has ever been able to say it's not, nor produce a single scripture which says these things!
There is no scripture that says the Church will be taken out before the tribulation.

"There are many scriptures (as I've given the one of the wheat and the tares)
which tell us that we will all (both believers and unbelievers),
be here until the End of the World/Age and God won't Pluck one Up because the other is choking it.

"So we have a choice. Believe God, or man.

"I've just given you a few verses, there are many, many more which show the very same thing.

"The Rapture, and the Judgment, is at the End of the World, at the Last Day, not before the Tribulation.

"The 1000 year Reign that Revelation chapter 20 talks about says, the souls "of" the martyrs (those who died),
NOT souls (which could be people), or people here Reigning with Christ "on Earth" in the literal middle eastern city of Jerusalem.

"It says souls "of" the martyred dead, while the rest of the dead lived not again.
NOT one word about living people Reigning "upon Earth" with Christ.

"...He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

"Study scripture carefully leaning upon it's Words alone (Sola Scriptura) and the Holy Spirit Will Guide you into Truth.

"Accept the words of men and of Church traditions and you set yourself up for a great fall by building upon unsound foundation.

"Souls of those who are beheaded for Christ's sake do not rise up out of the Earth to Reign literally in Jerusalem.

"The Saints upon their death immediately go to Heaven to Reign with Christ!

"The teaching that this chapter says souls are literally Reigning on Earth in Jerusalem, is untenable.
But it's repeated so often that those who do not carefully compare Theologians words with the scriptures,
have actually told me that this was explicitly written there,
i.e., they heard it so much that they really think that this verse actually says that.

In Reality John says (the Word of God says) that he saw souls "of" the martyred, Reigning!
He saw the souls of those killed (Beheaded).

"Not Souls (which could be people), and not Martyrs, but the "Souls, of the martyrs!"
And since when does souls of the dead Martyrs Reign on the Earth?

"Why would a soul apart from his body, be Reigning in a literal city in the Middle East?

"These souls Reign in the Jerusalem from above, not in an Earthly Nation, Holy City, or Holy Temple.

"A Spiritual Holy Nation, the Jerusalem from above Galatians 4:26;

"But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all."

From: An Exposition of Revelation Chapter Twenty.

Jesus right now in his role as mediator and High priest, not in directly Kingdom Ruling until second coming and establishment of the Messianic Age

 

[Alan Dale Gross]

Jesus right now in his role as mediator and High priest,

not in directly Kingdom Ruling until second coming and establishment of the Messianic Age

?
"If you are a premillennialist, whether dispensational or not,
there are several things with which you must reconcile within your brain:
?
UNLESS, THE NEW TESTAMENT SCRIPTURES ARE SOMETHING YOU HATE.
?
You must necessarily believe that Physical Death will continue to exist
beyond the Time of Christ’s Second Coming. The reason for this is that all premillennialists must account for the rebellious and unbelieving nations
in Revelation 20:7-10 who launch an assault against Christ and His people
at the end of what they believe is 'the millennial age'.
?

until second coming and establishment of the Messianic Age

?
"Where did these people come from? They must be the unbelieving progeny
born to those believers who entered 'the millennial age' in physical, un-glorified bodies.
?
"Not only they, but also the believing progeny born to those believers
will be subject to Physical Death (notwithstanding the alleged prolonged life spans experienced by those who live during 'the millennial' Reign of Christ).
?
"You must necessarily believe that the Natural Creation will continue,
beyond the Time of Christ’s Second Coming, to be subjected to the curse
imposed by the fall of man. The reason for this is that all premillennialists must concede that unbelievers will continue to populate and infect the earth during 'the millennial' Reign of Christ.
?
"Notwithstanding the Presence of Christ Himself, as premillennialists argue,
the Earth will continue to be ravaged by war and sin and death,
even if only at 'the millennium’s' end (Revelation 20:7-10).
?
As a premillennialist, you must necessarily believe that
the Redemption of the Natural Creation and its being set free
from bondage to corruption does not occur, at least in its Consummate Expression,
until '1,000 years subsequent to Christ’s Return'.
?
You must necessarily believe that the New Heavens and New Earth
will not be introduced until '1,000 years subsequent to the Return of Christ'.
This is not in itself problematic, except for the fact that the NEW TESTAMENT
appears to teach that the New Heavens and New Earth
are Inaugurated at the Time of Christ’s Second Coming,
not '1,000 years thereafter' (2 Peter 3:8-13).
?
You must necessarily believe that unbelieving men and women will still have the opportunity to come to Saving Faith in Christ for at least '1,000 years subsequent to His Return'. The reason for this is that, according to premillennialism, countless millions of people will be born during the course of 'the millennial' Reign of Christ.
?
"Are premillennialists asking us to believe that upon their attaining to an age when they are capable of understanding and responding to the Revelation of God and the Personal, Physical Presence of the Risen and Glorified Christ Jesus Himself, that none of them will be given the opportunity to respond in Faith to the claims of the Gospel?
?
"You must necessarily believe that unbelievers will not be finally Resurrected until at least '1,000 years subsequent to the Return of Christ'. All premillennialists affirm that the Final Resurrection of the unsaved occurs at the Close of the 'millennial kingdom'.
?
"You must necessarily believe that unbelievers will not be finally Judged and Cast into Eternal Punishment until at least '1,000 years subsequent to the Return of Christ'.
?
"So, what’s wrong with believing these things, asks the premillennialist?
?
"What’s wrong is that these many things that premillennialists must believe
the EXACT THINGS The NEW TESTAMENT Explicitly Denies.
?
"In other words, in my study of the Second Coming of Christ I discovered that, contrary to what premillennialism requires us to believe (see above), Physical Death is Defeated and Swallowed up in Victory at the Parousia (1 Cor. 15:22-28, 50-57),
!
"The Natural Creation is set free from its bondage to corruption at the Parousia (Rom. 8:18-23),
!
"The New Heavens and the New Earth are introduced immediately following the Parousia (2 Pet. 3:8-13),
!
"All opportunity to receive Christ as Savior Terminates at the Parousia (2 Cor. 6:1-2; Heb. 9:27),
!
"And both the Final Resurrection and Eternal Judgment of unbelievers will occur at the Time of the Parousia (Matt. 25:31-46; John 5:28-29; 2 Thess. 1:5-10).
!
"Simply put, the NEW TESTAMENT Portrayals
of the SECOND COMING OF CHRIST
Forced me to Conclude that:

'A Millennial Age', Subsequent to Christ’s Return,
of the Sort Proposed by premillennialism was Impossible."

Why I Am An Amillennialist.​

August 29, 2022 by Sam Storms