"Reverend" as a title

[JonC]

The title “Reverend” signifies one is a member of the clergy. It is derived from a word indicating a person to be revered.

The title “sir” derives form the honorific title sire. It can carry the general sense of “father”.

The title “Mister” (i.e. Mr.) is an honorific for men (under the rank of knighthood). It is derived from the word “master” (same with Mrs., Ms. and Miss).

I’m sure that those who object the use of “Reverend” as a title also object to the use of Mr., Mrs., Miss, and Ms. (as one shouldn’t have multiple masters). I’m confident they would never call a man “sir” (or “father”) as that would be hypocritical.

I know that words have meanings, but sometimes meanings and/or the general sense of a word changes over time. Growing up, a Reverend was someone entrusted to the office of pastor. On this forum, some seem to believe it a title indicating more than its contemporary use.

My question is whether or not we are bound by the original meanings of words even when such meanings become archaic or at least not in line with the contemporary definition of the word.

 

[rsr]

I don't like it, but to me it's not worth getting your knickers in a twist.

It grates on my nerves when someone is called "Reverend" as if it's a noun; it's an adjective.

Lots of Baptists don't like it, and woe to you if you use the word for a Church of Christ minister.

Still, most people simply use it to signify a pastor, and they don't mean anything untoward by it. There are many more pressing problems than to cavil about someone using it as an honorific.

 

[JonC]

I don't like it, but to me it's not worth getting your knickers in a twist.

It grates on my nerves when someone is called "Reverend" as if it's a noun; it's an adjective.

Lots of Baptists don't like it, and woe to you if you use the word for a Church of Christ minister.

Still, most people simply use it to signify a pastor, and they don't mean anything untoward by it. There are many more pressing problems than to cavil about someone using it as an honorific.

We typically call our pastors "brother". I've noticed larger churches use "pastor" as a title for various positions (at my last church we had many "pastors", to include "event pastors" and "pastors" who pastored the financial issues of the church).

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I don't like it, but to me it's not worth getting your knickers in a twist.

It grates on my nerves when someone is called "Reverend" as if it's a noun; it's an adjective.

Lots of Baptists don't like it, and woe to you if you use the word for a Church of Christ minister.

Still, most people simply use it to signify a pastor, and they don't mean anything untoward by it. There are many more pressing problems than to cavil about someone using it as an honorific.

Only God is reverend!!!

 

[TCassidy]

Only God is reverend!!!

Eph_5:33 Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Eph_5:33 Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.

That is not a title.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

We typically call our pastors "brother". I've noticed larger churches use "pastor" as a title for various positions (at my last church we had many "pastors", to include "event pastors" and "pastors" who pastored the financial issues of the church).

These days I call them sonny.... I get back dad or pop.

 

[TCassidy]

That is not a title.

Neither is "reverend." It is an adjective. "The Reverend Mr. Smith." A man to be revered. To be respected.

 

[Reformed]

My question is whether or not we are bound by the original meanings of words even when such meanings become archaic or at least not in line with the contemporary definition of the word.

No. We are not bound by the original meaning (unless we are trying to understand a language in its historical context). Language does change over time. Does anyone still speak middle English? Latin on a regular basis? Original Aramaic? Vernacular does impact how words are used.

 

[tyndale1946]

These days I call them sonny.... I get back dad or pop.

You call one our preachers Reverend, they would say, let me step off to the side here... I don't want to be struck by lightning... Never heard them called Bishop either... Preacher, Elder, Pastor and Brother, that will work... All others are the titles of men... Brother Glen

 

[Alcott]

I don't like it, but to me it's not worth getting your knickers in a twist.

It grates on my nerves when someone is called "Reverend" as if it's a noun; it's an adjective.

What's the difference between getting your knickers in a twist and something grating on your nerves?
Anyway, Dr. is also a title [adjective], but often people address a doctor that way.

Lots of Baptists don't like it, and woe to you if you use the word for a Church of Christ minister.

I don't address anybody with a title live Rev., but my mom, in her long working life as a service rep with the phone company, told that she once did that with a C or C minister, who identified his occupation as such, and he 'jumped all over her.' She says she just assumed from past experience that's how a preacher/minister was to be addressed. I think I know who it was that she meant; a man whose daughter was in my class in school. He did this "Dial a Devotional" thing daily, with a scripture, a brief paragraph of application, and a short prayer. And I wonder why he did that-- since no NT passage says to do it.

Still, most people simply use it to signify a pastor, and they don't mean anything untoward by it. There are many more pressing problems than to cavil about someone using it as an honorific.

There is no need for any special title. Many refuse 'Rev.,' but have cards and answer their phone with, "Brother ___ ___; how may I help you?" That's just substituting one title for another, as all are brothers, but we don't all identify ourselves that way, like "Brother Bob Smith's Ready Made Concrete."

 

[rsr]

What's the difference between getting your knickers in a twist and something grating on your nerves?

Lots of things grate on my nerves, like bad spelling, improper diction, poor grammar, and people in the checkout line with 47 items who won't let someone with a loaf a bread go first. None of them raise an existential threat and I don't feel obliged to denounce them or worry about them.

Many refuse 'Rev.,' but have cards and answer their phone with, "Brother ___ ___; how may I help you?" That's just substituting one title for another, as all are brothers, but we don't all identify ourselves that way, like "Brother Bob Smith's Ready Made Concrete."

Now you've stopped preaching and started meddling ...

 

[Yeshua1]

The title “Reverend” signifies one is a member of the clergy. It is derived from a word indicating a person to be revered.

The title “sir” derives form the honorific title sire. It can carry the general sense of “father”.

The title “Mister” (i.e. Mr.) is an honorific for men (under the rank of knighthood). It is derived from the word “master” (same with Mrs., Ms. and Miss).

I’m sure that those who object the use of “Reverend” as a title also object to the use of Mr., Mrs., Miss, and Ms. (as one shouldn’t have multiple masters). I’m confident they would never call a man “sir” (or “father”) as that would be hypocritical.

I know that words have meanings, but sometimes meanings and/or the general sense of a word changes over time. Growing up, a Reverend was someone entrusted to the office of pastor. On this forum, some seem to believe it a title indicating more than its contemporary use.

My question is whether or not we are bound by the original meanings of words even when such meanings become archaic or at least not in line with the contemporary definition of the word.

When I have meet Pastors who wanted to be called by that title, they seem a bit "uppity" to me!

 

[Alcott]

Many refuse 'Rev.,' but have cards and answer their phone with, "Brother ___ ___; how may I help you?" That's just substituting one title for another, as all are brothers, but we don't all identify ourselves that way, like "Brother Bob Smith's Ready Made Concrete."

Now you've stopped preaching and started meddling ...

How's that?

 

[rlvaughn]

The title “Reverend” signifies one is a member of the clergy. It is derived from a word indicating a person to be revered.

The title “sir” derives form the honorific title sire. It can carry the general sense of “father”.

The title “Mister” (i.e. Mr.) is an honorific for men (under the rank of knighthood). It is derived from the word “master” (same with Mrs., Ms. and Miss).

I’m sure that those who object the use of “Reverend” as a title also object to the use of Mr., Mrs., Miss, and Ms. (as one shouldn’t have multiple masters). I’m confident they would never call a man “sir” (or “father”) as that would be hypocritical.

I know that words have meanings, but sometimes meanings and/or the general sense of a word changes over time. Growing up, a Reverend was someone entrusted to the office of pastor. On this forum, some seem to believe it a title indicating more than its contemporary use.

My question is whether or not we are bound by the original meanings of words even when such meanings become archaic or at least not in line with the contemporary definition of the word.

What do you consider to be the contemporary definition? Probably many who use it just mean "that guy is a preacher." The "contemporary" dictionary definitions do consider it a title, though.

Free Dictionary: 3. Reverend Abbr. Rev. Used as a title and form of address for certain clerics in many Christian churches
Merriam Webster: 2 a : of or relating to the clergy b : being a member of the clergy —used as a title
Dictionary.com: 1. (initial capital letter) (used as a title of respect applied or prefixed to the name of a member of the clergy or a religious order)
Oxford Living Dictionary: 1. Used as a title or form of address to members of the clergy.
Cambridge Dictionary: (U.S.) 1. a title for a member of the Christian clergy

My objection to its use is that the New Testament does not give "titles" to its ministers. Technically, I would say that even Elder, Bishop, Pastor, etc. used as an ecclesiastical title does not fit the biblical norm. [For examples, "Paul, an apostle" rather than "Apostle Paul"; "Benjamin Keach, an elder" rather than Elder Benjamin Keach.] I discourage its use. That said, I also agree with rsr:

Still, most people simply use it to signify a pastor, and they don't mean anything untoward by it.

It grates on my nerves when someone is called "Reverend" as if it's a noun; it's an adjective.

Looks like most dictionaries are "conforming" to usage and also calling it a noun as well as an adjective. Oddly, Cambridge online only gives it as a noun. https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/reverend

 

[Alcott]

Neither is "reverend." It is an adjective. "The Reverend Mr. Smith." A man to be revered. To be respected.

To be "feared," does it not mean?

 

[JonC]

What do you consider to be the contemporary definition? Probably many who use it just mean "that guy is a preacher." The "contemporary" dictionary definitions do consider it a title, though.

Free Dictionary: 3. Reverend Abbr. Rev. Used as a title and form of address for certain clerics in many Christian churches
Merriam Webster: 2 a : of or relating to the clergy b : being a member of the clergy —used as a title
Dictionary.com: 1. (initial capital letter) (used as a title of respect applied or prefixed to the name of a member of the clergy or a religious order)
Oxford Living Dictionary: 1. Used as a title or form of address to members of the clergy.
Cambridge Dictionary: (U.S.) 1. a title for a member of the Christian clergy

My objection to its use is that the New Testament does not give "titles" to its ministers. Technically, I would say that even Elder, Bishop, Pastor, etc. used as an ecclesiastical title does not fit the biblical norm. [For examples, "Paul, an apostle" rather than "Apostle Paul"; "Benjamin Keach, an elder" rather than Elder Benjamin Keach.] I discourage its use. That said, I also agree with rsr:


Looks like most dictionaries are "conforming" to usage and also calling it a noun as well as an adjective. Oddly, Cambridge online only gives it as a noun. Reverend Meaning in the Cambridge English Dictionary

For the most part, I believe that "pastor" has replaced "reverend" as a title. A contemporary definition, I believe, is that a person is a pastor or has a position of leadership in a church. It has to do with the person's office, not the person's character (which is perhaps unfortunate).

 

[rlvaughn]

For the most part, I believe that "pastor" has replaced "reverend" as a title.

I wonder if that might be somewhat geographical and generational?

I started a thread on a related but slightly different topic -- "Doctor" as a Title (I figured that would be better than distracting from your topic by bringing it up for discussion in this thread).

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Neither is "reverend." It is an adjective. "The Reverend Mr. Smith." A man to be revered. To be respected.

Nope only God is Reverend, man by nature is sinful.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

For the most part, I believe that "pastor" has replaced "reverend" as a title. A contemporary definition, I believe, is that a person is a pastor or has a position of leadership in a church. It has to do with the person's office, not the person's character (which is perhaps unfortunate).

They don’t pastor me either...I listen to the sermon then go home... maybe it should be sermonizer; Mr. Sermonizer.