Revised Dispensationalism

[Yeshua1]

It doesn't have to be fully realized for it to begin. The resurrection was the beginning of new creation. At one time, it was believed to happen all at the same time. But Jesus' resurrection blew that out of the water. God is reigning here, but his rule is yet to be fully consummated. Jesus did usher in new creation, but only in an incipient form. There is more to come. Yet the present, evil age continues until he returns.

But the Messianic Age as foretold by the hebrew prophets would be the era at His second coming, correct?

 

[Greektim]

But the Messianic Age as foretold by the hebrew prophets would be the era at His second coming, correct?

The age that you keep referring to was also described in terms of resurrection. Thus when resurrection begun, that age of life begun. And that is why the prophets (and the rest of the OT) find their yes in Jesus. We are living in the "last days" and have been for 2,000 years. We are the eschatological people of God. We are the new covenant community and have been imparted resurrection life (new birth). We have partaken of the age of life w/ the Spirit as our down-payment of a full and final resurrection.

 

[Yeshua1]

The age that you keep referring to was also described in terms of resurrection. Thus when resurrection begun, that age of life begun. And that is why the prophets (and the rest of the OT) find their yes in Jesus. We are living in the "last days" and have been for 2,000 years. We are the eschatological people of God. We are the new covenant community and have been imparted resurrection life (new birth). We have partaken of the age of life w/ the Spirit as our down-payment of a full and final resurrection.

The Age of resurrection though for the Messianic Age is the glorification of the physical bodies of the believers, not]in a spiirtual resurrection when we got saved![

 

[Greektim]

The Age of resurrection though for the Messianic Age is the glorification of the physical bodies of the believers, not]in a spiirtual resurrection when we got saved![

2 things:
1) Resurrection and thus the age associated with it has begun. Jesus is the firstfruits of new creation via his resurrection
2) And the new birth is a spiritual resurrection. Our dead bodies have been quickened. We have been given new life. Spiritual breath has filled our souls. Our hearts of stone have become hearts of flesh. We have been regenerated!!! All this through the resurrecting power of Jesus. We have in a real way participated in Jesus resurrection in this way. Though we await the fullness of that new life (resurrected bodies), we have been given a down-payment through the life-giving power of the Spirit in our lives. That is as Pauline as you can get.

 

[Yeshua1]

2 things:
1) Resurrection and thus the age associated with it has begun. Jesus is the firstfruits of new creation via his resurrection
2) And the new birth is a spiritual resurrection. Our dead bodies have been quickened. We have been given new life. Spiritual breath has filled our souls. Our hearts of stone have become hearts of flesh. We have been regenerated!!! All this through the resurrecting power of Jesus. We have in a real way participated in Jesus resurrection in this way. Though we await the fullness of that new life (resurrected bodies), we have been given a down-payment through the life-giving power of the Spirit in our lives. That is as Pauline as you can get.

Need to add the extra detail though, as the Messianic Age in its fullest extent not here Until Jesus glorifies these physical bodies to be just as he is in body state!

 

[Greektim]

Need to add the extra detail though, as the Messianic Age in its fullest extent not here Until Jesus glorifies these physical bodies to be just as he is in body state!

Haven't I been saying that, though? I've never said the fullness of the Kingdom of God has arrived. But it has begun, it is expanding today, and one day it will reach its culmination at the return of Jesus. Roll credits!

 

[Yeshua1]

Haven't I been saying that, though? I've never said the fullness of the Kingdom of God has arrived. But it has begun, it is expanding today, and one day it will reach its culmination at the return of Jesus. Roll credits!

Are you saying that the Church ushers that in then?

 

[DHK]

Haven't I been saying that, though? I've never said the fullness of the Kingdom of God has arrived. But it has begun, it is expanding today, and one day it will reach its culmination at the return of Jesus. Roll credits!

The trouble with this type of thinking (that the world is getting better) is that it is not true. It contradicts both reality and the Bible. Jesus spoke of natural catastrophes. There are more today than ever before in history, some of which could have a devastating effect on the entire world.
See here:
https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/happen-yellowstone-supervolcano-erupted-162451564.html

Jesus said: When I come, will I find faith on the earth?
We have a population that exceeds seven billion.
According to a 2011 Pew Forum study on global Christianity, 285,480,000 or 13.1 percent of all Christians are Evangelicals.
Accordng to the same study 32% of the world's population considered themselves Christians (including of course the RCC).
They also estimated the population of Christians at 2.10 billion.
275,100,000 evangelical Christians in the world. Or 3.93% of the world's population claim to be born again. That is not growth.

At the time of Christ Christianity was so relevant and such a wide-spreading faith, that Constantine declared it to be a state-religion (though for his own political means). Today, its an afterthought, even in the U.S., where many people are trying to get the phrase "under God" removed from the pledge of Allegiance, just as they did with the prayer and the Bible removed from the public schools.

ISIS is a threat and on the move. Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world.
Jesus likened his coming to the days of Noah: drinking and eating; marrying and given in marriage--given over to their basic animal instincts.

A description of the end times, which we live in today:
[FONT=&quot]2 Timothy 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.[/FONT]

It is not getting better and better and better; it is getting worse and worse. This is according to the Word, and according to reality.
ISIS is burying Christians alive, crucifying others, and randomly killing still others. How can things be getting better when such evil exists?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evangelicalism#cite_note-PewGlobalChristianity67-37

 

[Greektim]

The trouble with this type of thinking (that the world is getting better) is that it is not true. It contradicts both reality and the Bible. Jesus spoke of natural catastrophes. There are more today than ever before in history, some of which could have a devastating effect on the entire world.
See here:
https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/happen-yellowstone-supervolcano-erupted-162451564.html

Jesus said: When I come, will I find faith on the earth?
We have a population that exceeds seven billion.
According to a 2011 Pew Forum study on global Christianity, 285,480,000 or 13.1 percent of all Christians are Evangelicals.
Accordng to the same study 32% of the world's population considered themselves Christians (including of course the RCC).
They also estimated the population of Christians at 2.10 billion.
275,100,000 evangelical Christians in the world. Or 3.93% of the world's population claim to be born again. That is not growth.

At the time of Christ Christianity was so relevant and such a wide-spreading faith, that Constantine declared it to be a state-religion (though for his own political means). Today, its an afterthought, even in the U.S., where many people are trying to get the phrase "under God" removed from the pledge of Allegiance, just as they did with the prayer and the Bible removed from the public schools.

ISIS is a threat and on the move. Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world.
Jesus likened his coming to the days of Noah: drinking and eating; marrying and given in marriage--given over to their basic animal instincts.

A description of the end times, which we live in today:
[FONT=&quot]2 Timothy 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.[/FONT]

It is not getting better and better and better; it is getting worse and worse. This is according to the Word, and according to reality.
ISIS is burying Christians alive, crucifying others, and randomly killing still others. How can things be getting better when such evil exists?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evangelicalism#cite_note-PewGlobalChristianity67-37

I do not believe I said the world was getting better. I only said the kingdom of God is growing/expanding. As more believers submit to the reign of God and lordship of Jesus, it is growing/expanding. Just like Jesus said it would in Matthew 13.

 

[Yeshua1]

The trouble with this type of thinking (that the world is getting better) is that it is not true. It contradicts both reality and the Bible. Jesus spoke of natural catastrophes. There are more today than ever before in history, some of which could have a devastating effect on the entire world.
See here:
https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/happen-yellowstone-supervolcano-erupted-162451564.html

Jesus said: When I come, will I find faith on the earth?
We have a population that exceeds seven billion.
According to a 2011 Pew Forum study on global Christianity, 285,480,000 or 13.1 percent of all Christians are Evangelicals.
Accordng to the same study 32% of the world's population considered themselves Christians (including of course the RCC).
They also estimated the population of Christians at 2.10 billion.
275,100,000 evangelical Christians in the world. Or 3.93% of the world's population claim to be born again. That is not growth.

At the time of Christ Christianity was so relevant and such a wide-spreading faith, that Constantine declared it to be a state-religion (though for his own political means). Today, its an afterthought, even in the U.S., where many people are trying to get the phrase "under God" removed from the pledge of Allegiance, just as they did with the prayer and the Bible removed from the public schools.

ISIS is a threat and on the move. Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world.
Jesus likened his coming to the days of Noah: drinking and eating; marrying and given in marriage--given over to their basic animal instincts.

A description of the end times, which we live in today:
[FONT=&quot]2 Timothy 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.[/FONT]

It is not getting better and better and better; it is getting worse and worse. This is according to the Word, and according to reality.
ISIS is burying Christians alive, crucifying others, and randomly killing still others. How can things be getting better when such evil exists?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evangelicalism#cite_note-PewGlobalChristianity67-37

Things will get so bad that some time in the future the world will come out for someone to lead us, and that will be the Antichrist!

 

[DHK]

I do not believe I said the world was getting better. I only said the kingdom of God is growing/expanding. As more believers submit to the reign of God and lordship of Jesus, it is growing/expanding. Just like Jesus said it would in Matthew 13.

In an earlier post, and also in a few subsequent posts you said:

If there is an overlap between the ages, all of this is easily explained. Jesus' resurrection has inaugurated new creation. But the present, evil age continues. So there is both peace and unrest.

The basis of your kingdom age seems to be the resurrection. It inaugurated the "new creation." In a number of other posts you also refer to the resurrection in reference to the kingdom.

In Matthew 13 Jesus is speaking to a Jewish audience, and the parables center around the kingdom. This is long before the resurrection, and at this point none of them understood anything about the resurrection. It is safe to say that the only thing that any of them understood about the Kingdom was the earthly kingdom that is described in the OT, that earthly kingdom that the Jews wanted but were not given.

Even the disciples, in Acts one, asked Jesus, "Will you at this time restore your kingdom?" They were rebuked for asking the question.
"It is not for you to know..." Jesus said.
He referred them to the Great Commission in the very next verse basically telling them that it is not their business to concern themselves with the kingdom, but rather with the preaching of the gospel to the world.

The kingdom would come at a later time, when Christ would come again.
He would come in a manner as they saw him disappear from their sight.

 

[Greektim]

In an earlier post, and also in a few subsequent posts you said:

The basis of your kingdom age seems to be the resurrection. It inaugurated the "new creation." In a number of other posts you also refer to the resurrection in reference to the kingdom.

In Matthew 13 Jesus is speaking to a Jewish audience, and the parables center around the kingdom. This is long before the resurrection, and at this point none of them understood anything about the resurrection. It is safe to say that the only thing that any of them understood about the Kingdom was the earthly kingdom that is described in the OT, that earthly kingdom that the Jews wanted but were not given.

Even the disciples, in Acts one, asked Jesus, "Will you at this time restore your kingdom?" They were rebuked for asking the question.
"It is not for you to know..." Jesus said.
He referred them to the Great Commission in the very next verse basically telling them that it is not their business to concern themselves with the kingdom, but rather with the preaching of the gospel to the world.

The kingdom would come at a later time, when Christ would come again.
He would come in a manner as they saw him disappear from their sight.

You're mixing points and making an argument I never made (strawman). I was dealing w/ separate issues. The basis for the kingdom is not resurrection per se. I never said that. The basis for new creation beginning is resurrection. Jesus begun the kingdom, and part of that was his cross-work (including his resurrection). But his resurrection specifically ushered in what was always expected: the age to come or the age of life (which is what "eternal life" literally translates out to).

Matt. 13 was in reference to the kingdom growing. Those parables speak very specifically to its gradual growth rather than it coming all at once as formerly expected.

And of course Jesus rebuked his disciples. They were just taught 40 days about the kingdom and yet they are asking the same dumb questions. That doesn't change its inauguration.

To deny the present aspect of the kingdom is to make much of Jesus ministry moot or it only teaching us moralism, which is often how it is presented unfortunately.