We are to repent, to turn from our sins. Jesus says to repent or perish. I advise you to believe Jesus and teach what Jesus says, not what your religion has taught you.
-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Rewards
- Thread starter Moriah
- Start date
We are to repent, to turn from our sins. Jesus says to repent or perish. I advise you to believe Jesus and teach what Jesus says, not what your religion has taught you.
The repentance God requires us is the kind that is from a contrite heart and the kind that wants to turn from sin.
I have given you scriptures that tell us we have to prove our repentance. I have given you scripture that says we have to have a contrite heart.
I contradict nothing. Titus 3 is about why Jesus came to save us. It is about the plan of salvation.
Yes, we are to repent and turn from our sins. Being "sorry" for our sins doesn't work. There is a difference. OH - and I've gotten it straight from Scripture, not from my "religion".
There is a difference between repentance and being "sorry". Additionally, God does not choose to save us based on this - our repentance is a result of God's calling us. It doesn't come from us - it comes from Him.
Yes, it is about the plan of salvation and that we are saved not by anything that we've done but by His mercy. So you're getting it!
You do not speak the truth. What you say does not even make sense. I gave you scriptures.
It is not word games. It is defining words according to Biblical definitions. You do not have proper definitions of words like "repentance." If I use the word "repent," you think of something entirely different than what I and the Bible speak of.
Repentance is necessary, but not the way you define it.
One must repent before they are saved. It is a repentance from their sinful and rebellious attitude toward God, and a repentance toward their attitude toward God. If there is not a change of attitude toward God, there is no repentance.
That is not true. After salvation one must repent of specific sins. That is what 1John 1:9 is for. That is what the man in 1Cor.5ff had to do. He had to repent of his immorality. He never lost his salvation but he had to repent of his sin. That has nothing to do with salvation.
Being sorry for sin is not repentance. Judas was sorry for his sin, but did not repent.
So you can understand the verse better let me give you a more modern translation:
(CEV) First I preached to the people in Damascus, and then I went to Jerusalem and all over Judea. Finally, I went to the Gentiles and said, "Stop sinning and turn to God! Then prove what you have done by the way you live."
--Salvation always comes before works. Works are the way that we live after we are saved. Salvation is by faith and faith alone.
This is written to Christians, those that are in the faith. It has nothing to do with salvation. Have you no assurance that you are saved?
The Bible teaches:
Believe on the Lord Jesus and thou shalt be saved.
--You believe the words of the Bible to be heresy. That is truly sad.
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
HP: Repentance is first and foremost a change of attitude concerning ones SIN. Certainly it is a change of heart towards God's laws, and a willingness to obey and to act in accordance to God's laws, but you appear to this listener to be mincing words and trying to twist the real meaning of repentance to something it simply and primarily is not the essence of repentance. What you try to indicate as repentance, i.e., a "change of attitude towards God" places no emphasis on a change of attitude towards sin, which is at the heart of sincere repentance.
HP: Certainly if one sins subsequent to salvation he must of necessity repent for those, but if one does not repent for ones sins ANTECEDENT to salvation such a one will never even enter into a hope of eternal life. "Unless ye repent ye shall all likewise perish." That is placing repentance from ones sins, antecedent to salvation as a condition of salvation, not just something to be accomplished subsequent to salvation as you seem to indicate.
Perhaps a sinful lifestyle, a rebellious lifestyle that they lived in rebellion against God. Before recognizing who they were in God's sight (criminals) they had to have a change of mind. Simply "repenting" of sin will never get a person saved. Can you repent of all your sins. Can you remember all your sins, let alone repent of each one of them?? The very idea is absurd. Never does the Bible say "to repent of all your sins "in order to be saved."
Then maybe you don't understand what repentance is either.
How many sins are you going to recant? How many can you remember? Just what does it mean to "repent of sin"? You are the one with the nebulous language here.
You need to understand repentance. I defined it for you, but you reject the definition. Thus you remain confused.
So it is easier to say that salvation is by faith and faith alone. Faith, that is genuine faith includes repentance.
Salvation does not make one sinless. Are you sinless? Even after salvation we sin. That sin must be brought to God and repented of. In that way we maintain our fellowship with God. Our salvation was never in question. We are secure in the hand of God.
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
HP: I would agree that repentance involves both an attitude towards ones own sins and involves a change of heart or attitude towards God and His laws. I do not think anyone would disagree with that if you combine both concepts into an act antecedent to salvation.
If you desire to get technical, repentance cannot save period. Still, neither will any be saved apart from repentance. Repentance is a condition of salvation, NOT the grounds of salvation. We are NOT saved for the sake of our repentance, but neither will any be saved 'apart from' ones repentance. There is absolutely nothing meritorious in repentance, but it is required by God to enter into a hope of salvation.
To try, as you do, to say one only has to repent of specific sins subsequent to salvation, negates the whole notion of repentance for ones sins required by God antecedent to the new birth. Repentance involves a complete change of heart towards one sins, and involves the formation of a new ultimate intention of benevolence and obedience as opposed to selfishness and disobedience. When ones heart truly changes from benevolence towards God and His law, from disobedience and rebellion, ALL specific sins have in effect been repented for. Certainly there may be some individual sins our conscience via the working of the Holy Spirit upon our lives, even (and necessarily so) prior to salvation that necessitates the need to go over such sins in detailed repentance. Still yet, if a true change of heart towards sin has occurred, God sees that as fulfilling the call to repentance although one may not have in reality mentioned every possible sin ever committed. God knows full well that when ones heart is truly broken over their sins, and one seeks God for forgiveness for all known sins, calling upon God to create a new relationship of love and benevolence towards God, the repentance God calls upon us to do is indeed accepted by Him as the fulfilling of the condition to repent. As God lays sins on our heart, IF we have honestly had a change of heart, we will be willing to ask for forgiveness anew, and show God that our new heart is set upon Him. He can and will chastise us if in fact we seem to be drifting away back into a complacent attitude towards sin. God did not countenance the sin His own Son took upon Himself for the sins of the world, and neither will God countenance sins we commit and refuse to turn from subsequent to salvation.
Either salvation cleanses the heart from all sins that are past, or one is guilty of denying Scripture.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from ALL unrighteousness.
If one is not in a state of sinless perfection, in a sense, at the moment of salvation, such a one has simply not been saved. Sinless perfection, in the sense being used, does not negate the clear possibility if not probability that one can or will sin again, but rather is a notion that God has kept His promise and removed from us all sin in such a way that we stand at salvation faultless before Him at that very moment. In a sense, every believer is sanctified at salvation, again, in a sense. Bear in mind that sanctification is used in more than one sense and has more than one application, but includes the sense we are made pure and holy, set apart for the Masters use at salvation.
Last edited by a moderator:
To be precise: Repentance is a change of mind with respect to one's attitude toward God. At one time a person is in rebellion to God. He changes his mind about his attitude toward God. (By faith he trusts him). Now his mind or attitude is one of submission to God. His attitude has been changed from rebellion to submission. That is repentance.
If you consider the above definition repentance is the flip side of faith. It accomplishes the same thing. When one puts their faith in Christ they, at the same time, are repenting, or changing their attitude toward Christ. Both happen at the same time.
Thus salvation is still by faith alone. There are no conditions for salvation. Salvation is by faith alone. It is the free gift of God to be accepted by faith. Once you understand what faith is you can accept that.
Faith and repentance are inseparable.
Salvation is by faith alone. It is the gift of God, not of works (conditions), something you teach. You are teaching a false gospel, a gospel of works.
That is not exactly what I said is it?
Let me emphasize the last half of your statement--"the repentance for ones sins required by God antecedent to the new birth."
That statement is not what I said, and is totally unbiblical. You won't find it in Scripture. I will ask you again. How many sins before your salvation (antecedent to your new birth), do you remember that you might be able to repent of them. From the time of your birth til the time of your salvation can you remember every single lie, evil thought, angry word, and bring them all before God, one by one, and repent of each and every sin. Repent of ALL your sins HP? You really can do that?? Seriously?
The above verse has nothing to do with salvation. It is written to believers concerning maintaining our fellowship, not our salvation.
It is a theory, but not necessarily true since you don't account for the depraved nature that every man has inherited.
You do not speak as the Bible does.
You just could not get out of the fact that we have to repent before Jesus saves, you sure tried to say we do not have to, but because all the scriptures you could not get out of it. Now you just have to get out of the falseness that says repentance is not with sorrow or regret, because repentance without sorrow or regret just is not the repentance we are to do before one is saved.
In the Bible, people CONFESSED SINFUL THINGS THEY DID. That is what the Bible tells us. The Bible does not say people confessed for having a wrong attitude toward God.
This is more word games. The Bible does not say repent that you have had a “sinful and rebellious attitude toward God.” The Bible says repent of your sins. The thought about repenting for an attitude toward God is not something the Bible even says. The Bible is clear and plain about repenting of sinful actions we have done and thoughts of hate and lust and for not forgiving others.
Before and after salvation one must repent of specific sins. Here we are told people confessed their sins before they were baptized. Mark 1:5 The whole Judean countryside and all the people of Jerusalem went out to him. Confessing their sins, they were baptized by him in the Jordan River.
Acts 19:18
Many of those who believed now came and openly confessed what they had done.
Did you see that? They confessed WHAT THEY HAD DONE.
The answer you give to Jesus saying repent or perish is that it is after we are saved and has nothing to do with our salvation! That is your answer. Jesus says repent or perish. You say we do not have to repent before we are saved and after we are saved, we repent but if we do not we do not perish. You go against the Word of God.
We have to believe we are forgiven.
You are really trying hard to manipulate the scriptures. You even found a translation that has the word “then” in it. As if the word then somehow discounts what I have been saying. I will give you a translation that has “and” in it, and even a translation that does not even have a conjunction word to join it to the rest of the sentence.
NASB Acts 26:20 but kept declaring both to those of Damascus first, and also at Jerusalem and then throughout all the region of Judea, and even to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, performing deeds appropriate to repentance.
No kidding that is written to people who are supposed to Christians.
2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you--unless, of course, you fail the test?
I have assurance that I am saved. Would you like to know how you have assurance? The Bible says to examine yourselves.
You believe in the false doctrines your religion taught you. You choose to believe in manufactured beliefs over God's Truth.
All the scriptures you are quoting are being written to already believers also or did you realize that??
Repentance is an INWARD change of heart/mind about sin. Jesus describes the previous state of heart in John 3:18-19 where man LOVES darkness and HATES light. Repentance is changing that to the reverse. Jesus goes on to say that such a change is proof that it has been "wrought of God."
Paul describes the former state of mind in Romans 8:7. The mindset of the lost man is at "enmity" with God and INSUBORDINATE to the authority of God. Repentance is changing that to the reverse.
Paul says that the person with such a mind set does not possess POWER to change it - "neither indeed can be" and therefore concludes all who are "in the flesh" "cannot please God." Paul also says that "without faith it is impossible to please God" (heb. 11:6) and Jesus says that "NO MAN" (not just select jews) but "NO MAN can come to him except the Father draw him (Jn. 6:44) - and it must be "given unto him" by the Father (Jn. 6:65) again the power is found in God not in man to make such a change.
You may not like these scriptures and especially the fact that "EVERY MAN" or "ALL" who are drawn by the Father do come to Christ and are eternally saved as that is precisely what he says in John 6:44b and John 6:45. So "ALL" in John 12:32 that are drawn to Christ are ALL SAVED ETERNALLY. John 6 precedes John 12 and lays down the doctrinal guidelines for being drawn to the Son and the phrase "and I will raise him up at the last day" denies that any drawn will be lost.
Answer honestly Moriah.
Did you remember every sin before you were saved?
Did you recall every single sin from your childhood so that you could bring it God, and then confess every one of those sins so that you could repent of every one of them one by one? According to your theology if you did not do that then you are not saved today.
Have you confessed all the sins you have committed in your entire life?
Can you remember all the sins you have committed in your entire life?
God does not overlook any of them. Sin is sin, and one sin will condemn a person to hell, so you must be sure that everyone of them is confessed and repented of. Have you done that? Have you brought before the Lord every sin from earliest childhood to the Lord and repented of each and everyone?
If not, how do you know that you are saved?
This is your quote:
I am going by your words. Don't be hypocritical. Have you confessed and felt sorry for ALL OF YOUR SINS?
I said I already answered you a few times now, not that I had to answer you, but I did because I wanted to explain the truth to you. If you do not see it, then too bad, but you are not going to harass me with this kind of posts. You do this every time near the end of the debate of a topic.
It is your theology. Can't you apply it to yourself. This is the verse that you used:
Matthew 19:29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.
Have you obeyed it completely.
According to your theology, if you haven't forsaken all, it is impossible for you to inherit eternal life. Isn't that true?
No, that scripture does not say that. John 3:18-19 says, “Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has ot believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.
Not all men loved darkness instead of light, as you are saying. That is a total depravity belief. Read on to scripture 21, But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God.”
That tells us that there are those who do not love darkness more than light, but instead love the truth more than the darkness. You are imputing falseness into the scriptures, for no scripture says that God makes us believe first because we cannot believe after learning of Jesus.
Romans 8:7 says *the mind set on the flesh is hostile to God. It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. 8 Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God.
That scripture is about the person’s whose mind set is on the flesh. When a person hears the message that saves, they hear the message not while they are engaging in impurity, see Ephesians 4:18-24. We came to know Christ when we HEARD of him and were TAUGHT, with regard to our former way of life, to put off our old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires; to be made new in the attitude of our minds; and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness.
Again, not all have the mind set on the flesh. The message that saves is that, the message that saves. Paul was speaking about those under the law, before the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Be careful, you are adding to the scriptures if you say that scripture is saying no one has faith.
When Jesus was on earth, God only allowed people to come to Jesus who already had faith in God first, only the lost sheep of Israel. God hardened all the other Jews. After Jesus was lifted up, then all men from all walks of life could come to God through Jesus, and still then only by faith.
You do not understand the scriptures; even after I explain them, you do not see it. In my humble opinion, I do not believe that Jesus has opened the eyes of your heart.
When Jesus was on earth, he had a ministry. During this ministry, Jesus chose men to follow him; those are the apostles to the Lamb. Jesus says, “ And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.”
Read scripture 28, the scripture just before that one you want me to explain. Jesus said to them, “I tell you the truth, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
Jesus was speaking to his apostles. You try to convince people that we cannot obey Jesus! You teach that we cannot and do not obey leaving our homes and family, therefore we do not obey, and that is your proof that we cannot obey, and you claim we do not have to obey all that Jesus says. That is absurd. Jesus says his commands are not burdensome; see 1 John 5:3 and Matthew 15:30. Jesus said his commands are not burdensome; YOU however, try to make Jesus’ commands burdensome, through your misunderstanding. If Jesus expected all to leave their home and family, then that would be burdensome.
When Jesus was on earth, he had a ministry. During this ministry, Jesus chose men to follow him; those are the apostles to the Lamb. Jesus says, “ And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.”
Read scripture 28, the scripture just before that one you want me to explain. Jesus said to them, “I tell you the truth, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
Jesus was speaking to his apostles. You try to convince people that we cannot obey Jesus! You teach that we cannot and do not obey leaving our homes and family, therefore we do not obey, and that is your proof that we cannot obey, and you claim we do not have to obey all that Jesus says. That is absurd. Jesus says his commands are not burdensome; see 1 John 5:3 and Matthew 15:30. Jesus said his commands are not burdensome; YOU however, try to make Jesus’ commands burdensome, through your misunderstanding. If Jesus expected all to leave their home and family, then that would be burdensome.