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Rice/Henderson

Discussion in 'Sports Forum' started by Bro. Curtis, Jul 27, 2009.

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  1. Andy T.

    Andy T. Active Member

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    Yes, I would be kind of surprised at Jeter, but I don't think it's beyond the realm of possibility for him or anyone.
     
    #21 Andy T., Jul 31, 2009
  2. TomVols

    TomVols New Member

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    Further derailing this thread, Bronson Arroyo is now on the list. He told Boston media on Thurs and Cincinnati media today that he took andro from 1998-2003, and took amphetamines til 2006. I don't think these were banned til after, but it just goes to show that I don't know if we know anything about this.
     
    #22 TomVols, Jul 31, 2009
  3. padredurand

    padredurand Well-Known Member
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    Jim Rice stats here. Rice was solidly consistent for his 16 years. He had a great glove (.980 fielding percentage over his career). There is something to be said for a player who, for 16 years, will give you 550 at bats and get on base one out of every three appearances.

    I saw Rice play in Cooperstown in August of 1975 at the HoF game. There was a rookie hotshot by the name of Fred Lynn in the lineup that day as well.

     
    #23 padredurand, Aug 1, 2009
  4. rbell

    rbell Active Member

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    If Rice is in, does that give his teammate Dwight Evans any ammo?
     
    #24 rbell, Aug 1, 2009
  5. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis <img src =/curtis.gif>
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    I was thinking about that.

    As a hitter, longevity allowed Evans the opportunity to compile impressive counting stats over his career: His 2446 hits over his career rank 99th in history. His 1391 walks rank an impressive 26th. In his career he ranks 57th in total bases, 61st in doubles, 50th in home runs, and 45th in times on base, 44th on extra base hits and 70th in Runs. His career WARP 3 rests at an impressive 120.2, significantly higher than that of Rice. Additionally, his WARP 3 was over 10 three times in his career. He cracked an OPS of .900 four times over his career, including .986 in 1987. His OPS cleared .800 eleven times over his career and his career mark rest a respectable .840, only .14 points behind Rice while compiling over 1500 more Pas than Rice.

    While I do not think Rice should be a member of the Hall of Fame (though he deserves much consideration), I do believe his teammate does. Evans was a much better fielder, almost an equal as a hitter and lasted much longer. While Jim Rice had a season that trumps any season of Evans (Rice’s 78 ranks with the best of seasons), Evans was a tremendous RF season after season, over three decades. He’s Boston’s Billy Williams.

    http://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?showtopic=26674
     
    #25 Bro. Curtis, Aug 1, 2009
  6. Andy T.

    Andy T. Active Member

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    If Dwight Evans gets in, then Darrell Evans should also get serious consideration. Bill James calls the latter Evans the "most underrated player in baseball history."

    To be honest, neither has any kind of chance, even with the Veterans Committee. They just aren't "sexy" enough.
     
    #26 Andy T., Aug 1, 2009
  7. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    I just don't buy the argument that pitching is better now. Look at Nolan Ryan's stats from the 1970's. He was throwing 20+ complete games about each and every year, and sometimes the CG's were more than the wins he had that year. There was a time when a closer had 25 saves(Rawley Eastwick of the 75 Reds) and led the league in that category. If Trevor Hoffman and Mariano Rivera pitched then, they wouldn't even be half way to their save numbers they have now. And before you throw out the "Ryan pitched in the AL", Phil Niekro threw a bunch of complete games,too. Managers are just going to the bullpen more frequently these days.

    Willis
     
    #27 convicted1, Aug 4, 2009
  8. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    Phil Niekro's pitching stats with "245" being CG's

    24 Seasons 318 274 .537 3.35 864 716 83 245 45

    Nolan Ryan's stats with "222" being CG's

    27 Seasons 324 292 .526 3.19 807 773 13 222

    Now I know that the OP was nothing to do with pitching, but when someone said pitching is better now, I strongly disagree. But, in reference to Jim Rice he deserves to be in. Players like Palmeiro, Sosa, McGwire, Manny Ramirez, and the like, will only see Cooperstown if they visit there, but their "bust" will never be there. Their HOF careers went "bust", when someone squeezed the syringe.

    Willis
     
    #28 convicted1, Aug 4, 2009
  9. ccrobinson

    ccrobinson Active Member

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    I'm the someone who said that. I don't see how Nolan Ryan's complete games totals is going to prove anything other than Ryan was a horse. Choosing just 1 or 2 pitchers from a particular era, no matter who does it, isn't going to prove anything. One of us is going to have to look at overall numbers from both eras to get closer to the true answer. And I'm not sure the answer is anything other than completely subjective.
     
    #29 ccrobinson, Aug 4, 2009
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