Rick Warren and Barack Obama

two things:
1. Thanks I had a pool going when someone would call me lost for posting what I did...I won...thanks
2. This is exactly what happens when you link political action to salvation, way to be junior holy spirit for the rest of us. My point wasn't that we shouldn't oppose abortion rights advocates (clearly you don't know me well) but that if we are going to gripe about hypocritical democrats we better be ready to do the exact thing for hypocritical republicans.

what doctrinal positions put him here. Please be specific. Otherwise you're just postulating ad hoc and defaming another Christian to score cheap points.

let me be the first to help you pack you bags if that is your wish. But I don't think it is, you enjoy the conflict your posts bring too much. It is sad too because I would think we agree on far more than we disagree :flower:

 

There isn't who said there is?

Of course. Doesn't everyone?

That church. This board and all of America do.

I did not make this claim.

• Christ must be the head of the church and not Caesar, therefore no 501c3
• Hymns, psalms and spiritual songs only
• Modest dress
• AV only
• No freemasons
• And no PDL, PDC

Blind but think they can see.... have no need...

I did not make this claim.

The early church was not purpose driven via Rick Warren.

The early church had the Word of God just like today.

 

Do you even know what "new age" means?

 

Or it could be that Rufus doesn't answer ever post on this board and was enjoying his Thanksgiving and he didn't see a question in the post. Ransom stated his opinion and he's entitled to it and I moved on.

However, if my silence suggests I didn't have an answer I shall respond. My answer is that Barack Obama is, in fact, the embodiment of evil and any other devil that supports killing children would fall into this category as well. Whether Barack preaches/gives his speech/whatever on Thursday, Saturday or Sunday is irrelevant. A Christian pastor's invitation to an accomplice to baby killing should be only to come to the altar in repentance, not to speak before the Church and Unchurched of Saddleback.

 

When was the last time you took a public stance against what you call evil?

 

Then move to an area where there are no churches and the gospel is not heard.

 

What kind of question is this? I stand against this stuff every chance I get.

 

What? Was your turkey basted in brandy?

 

That's good.

Then you are one in a million who complain and have the guts to say something. When I pastored I found few who would be counted. There are few among those in the congregation and other pastors.

 

Where you live are churches on every street corner. If you do not like the situation, then go where the problem you do not like is not an issue. So many other areas are not playing church and discussing non-issues but rather are hard at work praying and winning people to Christ.

 

Obama does not likely share all of our convictions - but that does not make him a monster. Most people who are not evangelical Christians are humanists - seeing themselves as trying to help the most people. The humanist sees it as wrong to put religious principle above the good of real flesh and blood people.

No one who supports abortion does so because he/she likes babies to be killed. It is true that if abortion were to be banned that there would be more teenage girls thrust into womanhood and more "back alley abortions". Neither of these things is desirable - but neither justifies murder either.

We need not be too haughty to dialogue with people to show them their error. None of us here can or should ever endorse abortion - but we are fighting straw men if we refuse to believe that there are not actual "principled" arguments behind things like legalized abortion and gay marriage. We need to be prepared to show, in a loving way, why these things are wrong and why God's law trumps even the attempts to improve the well-being of marginalized individuals.

 

These are 2 answers to a couple questions or comments I made earlier..
The first has to do with believing the churches in Revelation refer to church ages...

My response, no... everyone doesn't believe it refers to church ages... I used to, but then realized there is no biblical support to it. You have to do some major exagerating the Word to fit the church ages in.... I know.
I can do it... It doesn't make it right.

The second quote above is true. Of course Rick Warren didn't give the early church a drive with a purpose... Christ did...

All 5 areas of PDL is seen in Acts 2:42-47
They Worshiped..
The fellowshipped
They discipled others
They ministered to each other
And they won others through evangelism.

Warren just summarized what the Bible says. Like any other good preacher does each Sunday.

 

Imagine that, selling all those copies of info that was in the Bible.

And to be attacked so for doing it.

One of those things that makes you go HHHhhhmmm???

 

Show me the part in the book of Acts where the saints walked together with baby killers.

 

Have you won any women to Christ who have had an abortion?

 

Well how about when Christ hung out with the prostitutes and drunkards in the Gospels. There were no well developed contraceptives back then...surely some would have.

(note: I am morally opposed to abortion)
This whole "baby killers" demonization is just another ad hominem attack against abortionists. We should do better.

 

How many of us have shopped at store chains which (at corporate level) support abortion or gay marriage?

How many of us shop at stores which are happy to take advantage of illegal immigrant labor?

"Abortionists" are generally humanistic in their outlooks - asserting that unwanted pregnancies lead to bad consequences for society. I would wager none of these individuals is happy to see babies die - rather they find it the lesser of two evils. To characterize them as such sets up straw men and burns bridges between them and the truth.

We have got to get this message out before abortion becomes more entrenched and more accepted. That involves interaction and dialogue with these people. We need to be able to discuss issues with them, trying to show them that in reality abortion is a radical evil which is so bad that it cannot be allowed - no matter what undesirable effects accrue. We need to be able to show them that abortion is really always the greater of any two evils.

 

Ad hominem? It's not ad hominem to describe what they do. To call them "abortionists" is akin to calling murderers "extinguishers of life" or some other soft term. If you are morally opposed to abortion stop apologizing for those who are morally in favor of abortion.

 

Most on this board should know the worldly disguise on this issue. Post-modernism... truth is relevant... certainly the bible is not absolute...is it? Obama runs under the same banner as Mr. Warren, McClaren and others namely "lets not major on the differences but agree to disagree and work for the same "purposes" together. Lets just forgive one another and go on. How is that for new age?

Thjplgvp

 

New Age = anything thjplgvp doesn't agree with.

Your false accusations regarding "truth is relevant" and the "bible (most capitalize this, btw) is not absolute" are duly noted...and just as quickly dismissed. Remember, we all will have to answer for what is done and said while in this body. I wouldn't be so quick to label and attack a man of God the way you do.