-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Rightly dividing 2 Thessalonians 2:13
- Thread starter Van
- Start date
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Thats true. The non elect are doomed from the womb for their sins
That is a species of Hyper-Calvinism. The Bible says, 'Whoever calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.' But the Bible also says, 'And this is the condemnation, that the Light has come into the world, and men preferred darkness rather than light because their deeds were evil.'
The gates of heaven are open right now, and God says, 'Whoever wishes, let him take the free gift of the water of life.' Yet men will not come, not because they cannot, but because they will not - unless God drags them into the kingdom, as He did me.
That was John Calvin's standard Calvinism. he believed in double predestination.
How did God make you a willing subject for Him to drag you in? Do you think it was against your will, or do you think He made it your will.
God chooses individuals for salvation on the basis of crediting their faith in the truth as righteousness. 2 Thessalonians 2:13, Romans 4:23-25
2 Thess 2:13 says through faith in the truth, and only by jumbling the word does anyone see "NOT through faith in the truth. Those that believe God raised Jesus from the dead are credited with faith in the truth. Not a jumble but a lock. No OT Saint believed God raised Jesus from the dead before Jesus died...
I would describe myself more as a Spurgeonic Calvinist. I haven't read much Calvin and he was not the originator of Calvinism. William Tyndale was a Calvinist while Calvin was still in short pants.
He opened my heart to believe, as He did Lydia's. I had resisted many attempts to convert me for many years. I had read the Bible through and didn't understand it. Until, one day, the penny dropped in the slot.
But my resistance was all of me. I didn't want to give up my selfish, sinful lifestyle. My inability was not physical, but moral and spiritual I take God at His word. If I had believed earlier, He would have saved me earlier. I don't kmow if you have ever read The Hound of Heaven by Francis Thompson; "I fled Him down the nights and down the days...." That would pretty much sum me up. Thompson was a Roman Catholic, so not everything he wrote is correct, and poetry is not to be taken strictly literally, but I certainly fled from God, and God certainly pursued me until, at the time of His choosing, He conquered me.
I have heard the similar testimony several times.
God knew you would believe and He chose the right time and way for you to accept Him, all of His timing.
In the end you chose to believe, but you also could have chosen to kept running and refusing.
I guess it's an example of the long-suffering of the Lord not willing that any should perish.
Spurgeon said he was more of a Calvin man that Luther, but he preached and reached out to the lost as if free will was alive.
Not to put too fine a point on it, but 2 Thessalonians 2:13 blows Calvinism out of the water.
First, rather than Unconditional Election, scripture teaches we were chosen through faith in the truth, thus a conditional election.
Next, to be individually chosen through faith in the truth means we had come to faith BEFORE we were chosen, therefore during our physical lifetime after we had heard and learned from the Father, and NOT before we were created.
Thus all the posts of denial or of diversion from the topic.
First, rather than Unconditional Election, scripture teaches we were chosen through faith in the truth, thus a conditional election.
Next, to be individually chosen through faith in the truth means we had come to faith BEFORE we were chosen, therefore during our physical lifetime after we had heard and learned from the Father, and NOT before we were created.
Thus all the posts of denial or of diversion from the topic.
Free will is alive.
'Your people shall be willing in the day of Your power' (Psalm 110:3). Have a blessed Christmas, brother!Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
false statement, election is unto salvation and belief of the truth 2 Thess 2:13
13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
We disagree. Paul specifically says He has chosen “you”, the believers he is writing to. He did not say in the beginning God has chosen the way in which you have the opportunity to be saved if you are smart enough to accept it.
Paul tells them God has chosen them for salvation from the “beginning”, a reference to the beginning of creation which is common in Jewish thought when speaking of God doing something.
He then elaborates on how the salvation occurs, not how the choosing occurs as some are claiming. The salvation occurs through sanctification of God Holy Spirit and faith in the truth. That is rightly dividing God’s Word in this passsge.
The Greek word sanctification means to be “set apart”. God has chosen from the beginning. God Holy Spirit sets us apart (sanctifies) which leads to faith in the truth of Jesus Christ.
Our faith in Jesus is our response to God’s work in our lives.
Thanks for the civil discussion
Peace to you
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
That is a good question. To understand, you must first realize we all have a human will enslaved to sin. Our will is not “free” as it is influenced by all sorts of things, externally and internally. That prevents us from desiring to come to God as God has commanded all to come to Him. And it is true God desires all to come to Him. And it is also true that all rejected that call and have rejected God. God in His mercy has chosen the elect for a right relationship with Himself. That is “salvation”
God Holy Spirt frees us from from our enslavement to sin. That is the regeneration (quickening) Paul speaks of. It is also referred to as “drawing” to God or “convicting” of sin and of Christ’s righteousness.
Once the person is freed from sin by God Holy Spirit, they see and understand the truth of their condition before God and need for a Savior. They respond with faith in Jesus, who He is and what He has done.
At that point, God Holy Spirit indwells the new Christian, enabling and guiding him/her in their new life. They are transferred from darkness into life and are positionally in a right relationship with God.
Peace to you
The verse says we were chosen individually through faith in the truth. Here the Calvinist uses absurdity to defend insanity.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Chosen through faith in the truth. That is what it says in black and white, with no reading between the lines or alteration.
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
As always, you ignore key phrases in the passage to make it fit your belief.
The passage does not say we are “chosen” through faith in the truth. The passage says we were chosen by God from the beginning for salvation..
Paul them elaborates on how salvation occurs… through sanctification by God Holy Spirit and faith in the truth. Paul is not addressing how the choosing occurs. That idea is mangling the Word of God to force pre conceived bias into the passage.
The only time, that I can find, that scripture tells us “why” we are chosen is that is because of the kind intention of God’s will.
Only God gets the glory for our salvation.
Peace to you
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Yes, I know your God created man to save some and left the rest to self destruction by His decree.
He just chooses not to enlighten them the way He did for you,
How lucky you are to be one of the Elect.
Van, the best thing man has done to the scriptures is also the very most dangerous. The, so called, Books of the Holy Scriptures are not books and these letters, inspired by Yehovah God, do not have chapters and verses. The last four words of these seven are in violation of the command to neither add nor to subtract from the Word of God. And you are trying to intellectualize what our Creator has had recorded? Even a Simple Man understands the first three words and comprehends their meaning.