Ring ring -- reality calling.

Npetreley,

Are you going to pretend for Bible Belted that you knew that "effectual calling" and "irrestiable grace" were the same thing? Because you and I know you obviously did not know the connection of these terms.

Anyone can go back and read the post in "That the Spirit" and clearly see you were not following the meaning of "effectual calling" as it relates to Calvinism.

You don't have to pretend for us. We'll love you anyway.

 

Perhaps you substituted the wrong definitions for some pronouns I used, because I would not phrase what I believe the way you just put it. </font>[/QUOTE]Dang, it's impossible to debate a guy who doesn't even understand the terms of the beliefs they hold to. You quoted this passage:

I assumed you believed this quote, do you?

Bro. Bill

 

=================================================
Yelsew,

Because in Life they are not bogus and I cannot separate religion from life!

Ah! But the Trinity, the reality does appear in Scripture in the description of Jesus baptism by John. Under Calvinist rules I do not know that, because the Calvinist who post here have repeatedly told me that if it ain't in scripture it ain't true. So, I am reminding them of their rules in that they cannot use effectual in the manner they have been using it because it ain't in there! My pappy always tole me what's good for the goose is good for the gander. So if you demand that Calvinist use of non scriptural terms is OK, then it must mean that my use of non-scriptural truths is also OK! And I, in fact challenge them to prove that the truths that I post are in fact not truths at all!

I don't think either is true! They are merely human perception of divinely inspired scriptural principles. They are not the religion, but perception of religion, yet their adherents rely extensively upon them as if they are the core of religion.

I did not misuse the 'fruits of the spirit' at all, for all mankind is spirit in the image of God who is Spirit. The attributes that God gave to all men are what produce the fruits of the spirit. Love is one of the attributes that each and every human has as an attribute. If you love your wife, the love you feel for your wife you cannot give to your wife because it is part of what makes you you, Love is a non-transferable attribute, not a commodity one can hand to another. Your wife perceives your love for her and she responds in kind toward you with her love which is also non-transferable. The love that you have is yours and yours alone, every one else has their own. The same applies for all the attributes that God gave you. It depends on how you use your attributes that matters. Your use of your attributes depends on who and what you believe. That is not explicitly found in scriptures, but it is a principle that is true of all man kind and encompasses all who are included in the bible.

 

Yelsew,

How can you say that arguments that are based on falsehoods are not bogus in life? Lies are bogus in life!

How can you say that misleading arguemnts are not bogus in life? Misleading people is bogus in life!

How can you say that taking poeple's words out of context is not bogus in life? Misrepresentation is bogus in life!

That is a deliberate ditortion of what has been said. It isn't true. This is nmore of the same bogus argumentation.

This is taking the passage in Galatians WAY out of context. You are reading in your own ideas, and presenting them as divinely revelaed truth when they are nothing more than "merely human perception of divinely inspired scriptural principles". Misapplied at that!

A good example of how you do things wrong. Do you think for one second that you should define God's love, the love of the Spirit, by what we see on earth? NOt at all! it si the other way around.We define love by God, not by us. And it is obvious that love as defined by God is not present in this world. That would be part of how Paul can write as he does in Romans 5:6-8. We all have love of a kind, but it is not the love that is the fruit of the Spirit. IUn conext that is clear, though you ignore the context. It is indeed telling that you ignore the context.

The spirit in question in the phrase "fruit of the Spirit" is the Spirit of God, not hte spirit of man. In context the juxtaposition of the fruit of the Spirit is the fruit of the flesh, which is what we are all salves to apart from Chrost. THAT is what characterises this world. That doesn't mean that no good is done, but that the fruit fo the flesh and not that of the Holy Spirit is what characterises this world.

 

I did not misuse the The'fruits of the spirit' at all, for all mankind is spirit in the image of God who is Spirit. attributes that God gave to all men are what produce the fruits of the spirit. Love is one of the attributes that each and every human has as an attribute. If you love your wife, the love you feel for your wife you cannot give to your wife because it is part of what makes you you, Love is a non-transferable attribute, not a commodity one can hand to another. Your wife perceives your love for her and she responds in kind toward you with her love which is also non-transferable. The love that you have is yours and yours alone, every one else has their own. The same applies for all the attributes that God gave you. It depends on how you use your attributes that matters. Your use of your attributes depends on who and what you believe. That is not explicitly found in scriptures, but it is a principle that is true of all man kind and encompasses all who are included in the bible.

When you look in the mirror, which is the image? One must be true and the other the image. Which is the true?

The Spirit of God is what produces the fruits of the Spirit. The spirit of man can only produce self-righteousness at best, and murders, adulteries, etc. (all lusts of the flesh), inherited by us, no contest, through the fall of Adam.

You should know this if you are teaching Sunday School Yelsew. Your doctrine (which is what you teach) makes you sound more and more as if you don't think man really needs a Savior, God just provided one if we want to believe we need one.

Bro. Dallas

 

oh yeah, jails and schools are a proof that man is good. LOL

Hospitals: Driven by money, if the doctors are not paid, the don't care
Schools: Teach the goodness of homosexuality and safe sex
Jails: if convics have enough money, the can get off, or... they can sit in their comfy jail cells and watch cable tv
Churches: oh yeah, man set those up all by himself.

 

You sound very cynical. You must believe there is nothing worth redeeming in this world. I'm sure glad Jesus didn't feel about it as you do!

 

I agree.
Bro. Dallas

 

I think some missed the point of Rom 8:29-30 that is being made. In those verses all who are called are also justified and glorified. If there is only one call, then we end up in universalism. This must be a call that is different than the universal call that we all acknowledge. Not everyone who receives the general or universal call is justified and glorified. Everyone who receives this call is justified and glorified. The call is not made effectual when someone responds. It is shown to be effectual when someone responds.

 

Frogman,

</font>[/QUOTE]

The image you see reflected in the mirror is not the image of God, but the image of flesh.

It seems to me you rule out the fact we are made in the image of God, an image that cannot be reflected by mirrors, or captured on film or digitally because it is Spirit, and spirit defies capture by natural means. YES, it is the Spirit of God in us that makes us wholly acceptable to the Father. We however, having the attributes that God gave us, and being made whole by our belief, redirect ourselves in the fruits we produce from our spirit.

I am saddened that you see me that way. I do not teach that man is exonerated of Guilt, or that man is not bound by sin, and desperately in need of a savior. I do teach that man is made in the image of God, and that image includes the attributes we claim for God, except the omni-attributes. I believe it is better to give the understanding that God created us then called us "very good" but lost because of sin. That's a better message than, "we are totally depraved, unworthy worms, foul and desperately wicked", "dead", etc. I teach that we are, through Jesus, adopted children of God and that we are by our belief in Jesus, going to live forever in wealth (no worry) far greater than all the wealth of this world, and health (no pain) that this world cannot provide, and that there will be no tears (sadness), only Joyful worship of our redeeming Lord Jesus.

 

Same old assertions about the spirt and the image blah blah blah.

Never any realscriptural backup.

Col. 2:6-8.

BTW Yelsew, I await the apology you owe for your proven lies in the "receiving" thread.

 

npetreley, your first post is proof you are ON FIRE!!!

KEEP IT UP!!

rufus

 

Don't you understand? It's not about man, it's about God. Everything God does, He does for His glory.

There is *NOTHING* good in man, and you saying that there is a 'shred' of goodness left, is not found in scripture.

 

Don't you understand? It's not about man, it's about God. Everything God does, He does for His glory.

There is *NOTHING* good in man, and you saying that there is a 'shred' of goodness left, is not found in scripture. </font>[/QUOTE]Oh those arminians are just being silly. They point to the things that people do in seeming obedience to God thogh unsaved as evidecne of some sort. They don't ever cosider it seems that partial obedience is just disobedience and further proof of the calvanist position.

 

Of course, you realise that what determines whether something is a better message is not whether it makes us feel better, but whether it is the truth.

When did God call us "very good"? He only called us very good before the fall. Can you find one place after the fall where we were called "very good"? Doesn't Jesus himself tell us that "only God is good'?

The true statement is not:

God created us and called us "very good" but lost because of sin.

The true statement is this:

God created us and called us "very good", but now were are lost because of sin.

Once again, let's not ask, "Which message makes us feel better?", but "Which message is true?"
We were dead, and if it wasn't important that we know that, then it wouldn't have been included in scripture. We were dead in trespasses and sins, meaning we were </font>

• Following Satan like everyone else in the world</font>
• Living in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires our flesh has</font>
• Being BY NATURE objects of God's wrath (Eph. 2)</font>
• Foolish</font>
• Decieved</font>
• Enslaved to various wicked desires and sinful pleasures</font>
• Spending our lives in malice and envy</font>
• Full of hate for one another (Titus 3)</font>

The reason scripture tells us all this, however, is not to make us feel hopeless, but to make us feel thankful.

Because when we were in this wretched condition, with absolutely nothing within us to recommend us for redemption, "the kindness of God our Saviour and His love for mankind appeared" and He saved us, not because of anything within us, "but because of His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Saviour, that being justified by His grace we might be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life." (Titus 3)

Because when we were in this condition, with absolutely nothing to recommend us for redemption, "God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us.... made up alive together with Christ and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus."(Eph 2)

God took wretches and made them into His heirs, His adopted sons and daughters. He took unworthy worms, and raised them up and seated them with Christ. This shows us "the surpassing riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus."

How can we not praise this God who has this depth of mercy!

[ February 18, 2003, 01:11 PM: Message edited by: russell55 ]

 

Oh, you forgot to mention one:
*Unable to respond to the geniune calling of the gospel because of their blindness and deafness!

Oh no wait! That's only those who are "hardened" by God, never mind. Leave the list just like it is. Scripture never says that sin has made us unable to respond to God's geniune call of the gospel.

 

John 3.19 does say:

"And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil."


Bro. Dallas