RIP: Pastor Greg Baker's suicide death on Monday

[JPPT1974]

How sad and horrible. Praying for his family and congregation. God bless them and thinking of them.:tear:

 

[OldRegular]

How appallingly sad.....may God have mercy on his soul:tear:

I would assume that God's mercy was manifested when the man was saved. Am I wrong?

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Discretion is the better part of valor, when posting things about suicide.
However, I would like some verification about whether or not it was a suicide since the link given was: 1) a blog, 2) a blog that I cannot access because I do not have a username and password, and 3) doing a google search, I can find nothing about his death connected to a suicide except for the first post in BB.

I have the exact same results. This is the quietest suicide ever. Maybe something will come out, but I can only find a site that says he went home to be with the lord. That much is linked on this thread.

 

[OldRegular]

It is difficult to understand the thinking of some on this Forum. On another thread we had a great many people who insisted that clinical depression was a spiritual problem not a mental/physical problem.

Here we have a pastor who was a child of God, but committed suicide. Suicide is usually the result of uncontrolled depression. Now we have some on this Forum wondering if this child of God is in hell. It is simply beyond belief!

 

[Jim1999]

I live just two hours away from this church and all we heard was that he was found dead in his home. Not a mention of possible suicide. There has been nothing in the major newspapers about a suicide. I should imagine the suicide by a Baptist pastor would be major news in the news rags.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Jim, those were my exact thoughts.

 

[Jim1999]

Faithway puts faith into all it does

Tools






Dec 28, 2004 - 12:00 AM
By Jeff HaywardSpecial to the News Advertiser



AJAX - A local church celebrating 30 years of service has faith that it has many more years of fellowship ahead.
On Dec. 5, Faithway Baptist Church marked the official anniversary at its Salem Road home in Ajax. Faithway has grown a great deal over the years since its beginnings in 1974 at E.A. Fairman Public School in Whitby. The church then occupied a few different homes before purchasing its current location, which has now expanded to include the church itself and a Bible college.
Pastor Greg Baker, originally from Detroit, Michigan, feels the new home is a perfect location to serve the ever-increasing population in the area.
"Our church is growing with Ajax and the surrounding communities," says Pastor Baker. "We are strategically located and are preparing for our greatest years."
Pastor Baker is a graduate of Louisiana Baptist University and has been serving Faithway since 1980, assuming senior pastor duties in 1987. In that time, he has directed three building projects for the church.
Beyond the favourable location of Faithway, he feels the method of delivering his message has been the greatest factor in gaining visitors and new members.
"We believe the church is here to help people in the community discover a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. This only happens as we take the message of the Bible into the community," he explained.
To aid in helping visitors attend the church service, a team of volunteers operate nine red buses which bring hundreds around Durham to the Sunday morning services. The transportation is funded by the church congregation.
The Bible college has existed since 1983, offering programs in theological and religious studies. Currently there are students from all across North America enrolled, with 178 of its graduates now serving church ministries across Canada and around the world.
With an eye to the future, the church has taken steps to expand again, recently purchasing additional land beside the campus and consulting an architect.
"A 20-year plan will include increased educational space, parking, gymnasium and a 1,200- to 1,500-seat sanctuary," said Pastor Baker. To find out more about Faithway Baptist Church or the Bible college, visit www.faithway.org.


This is a news article in local newspaper back in Dec..Still nothing on suicide.


Cheers,

Jim

 

[Forever settled in heaven]

If you think this will help someone, feel free to pass this information along or to post it. If not, that's fine, too. My desire is to help the hurting and glorify the God of all grace.

While I would agree that suicide's not the unpardonable sin (the language is for that is different in the NT), I do have difficulty eliminating the possibility of the sin of despair (as opposed to hope/faith) in every case.

For sure, there are situations of chronic or temporary insanity, where the chemicals of the mind go haywire and people do things to themselves that they would not do at normal times.

But could it be possible in certain cases where saving faith was not really present in the first place? Perhaps it's hard to know now in an ultimate way what will only be fully revealed in the future. What I do salute and find comfort in--for all the sympathy they deservedly receive during this trial--is the way in which the bereaved proclaim their confidence not in the life or deeds of their loved one (whom they believe is saved) but in their most beloved God and Saviour:

Our hearts are filled with sadness, but our eyes are fixed on the Rock of Ages.

What a testimony.

 

[gb93433]

A relative of mine committed suicide several years ago and his wife told me that it was very hard to deal with because of what she saw as selfishness involved. She told it was much harder she felt than if he had just died.

So if that is the case then I am sure the family does need more pain by more questions and possible judgments.

 

[logoscardia]

My Pastor did pass away, yes it was suicide. It's a very sad time at our church. Pastor Baker was a great servant of God. It is very lonely being a Pastor. I think he pushed himself past what his body could take. He was a workaholic and never had leisure time. He will be missed greatly.
Jim

 

[christianyouth]

I think something isn't being mentioned in this thread, and that's the role of beliefs in suicide. Suicide IS a completely logical solution if someone is an unbeliever. But as a believer, it is an act that doesn't make sense. Just as I have to have a certain mindset before I sin(believing that God is a liar when he says sin leads to suffering) so someone who commits suicide could be evidencing a lapse of faith.

However, I think the shallow corporate life of most Christian churches could go into this. No place for the suffering Christian at many churches.

 

[youngfundy13]

I think something isn't being mentioned in this thread, and that's the role of beliefs in suicide. Suicide IS a completely logical solution if someone is an unbeliever. But as a believer, it is an act that doesn't make sense. Just as I have to have a certain mindset before I sin(believing that God is a liar when he says sin leads to suffering) so someone who commits suicide could be evidencing a lapse of faith.

However, I think the shallow corporate life of most Christian churches could go into this. No place for the suffering Christian at many churches.

I am sorry for the folks of FBC and the Baker family. This is truly sad. I must say though, that if any pastor is lonely then, like any other believer that is his own fault. God has placed the pastor in the local NT church just like any other member of the body. There is no need to be lonely. Confess your faults to one another and pray for one another. That is what the Lord says to do. Pastor Baker could have told his church his struggles and asked for help and prayer. Why didn't he? I don't know but I fear that so often it is because of the distinction made between the pastor and the "laity" (an unbiblical term) to the point that the pastor is on a pedestal while the "laity" is down below. Thanks to Jack Hyles for promoting so much of the separation between the pastor and the flock . . .

 

[Tom Bryant]

I think something isn't being mentioned in this thread, and that's the role of beliefs in suicide. Suicide IS a completely logical solution if someone is an unbeliever. But as a believer, it is an act that doesn't make sense. Just as I have to have a certain mindset before I sin(believing that God is a liar when he says sin leads to suffering) so someone who commits suicide could be evidencing a lapse of faith.

However, I think the shallow corporate life of most Christian churches could go into this. No place for the suffering Christian at many churches.

When you've met a believer who is suffering from severe depression going to heaven is a, TO THEM, a logical step. I don't agree with it, but the prospect of heaven and no longer suffering (whatever he thot his sufferings were) is a very wonderful prospect and to his mind a logical choice.

I would agree that many churches have no mechanism for a pastor to say to trusted people "I love Jesus, but I am not doing life very well at this moment. I need some help." And it is too bad that many pastors haven't developed friendships with other pastors to whom they can go. I am thankful God has given me some men in my church and fellow pastors whom I love and who love me.

 

[gb93433]

But as a believer, it is an act that doesn't make sense.

It may not make sense to you but it makes sense to them. It is a shorter step to heaven.

 

[gb93433]

And it is too bad that many pastors haven't developed friendships with other pastors to whom they can go. I am thankful God has given me some men in my church and fellow pastors whom I love and who love me.

My experience in the same convention I was in and I know among other friends of mine in other denominations has been that the people who should be helping you are judging you. I found that pastors outside of the same convention I am in were of far more help to me.

 

[christianyouth]

Tom Bryant, I'm not speaking of having some special counseling available or the like, I'm just talking about creating an atmosphere of incessant jollity, which is what a lot of evangelical churches have today. In that atmosphere, a suffering person doesn't get ministered too. Suffering people are actually repulsed by that atmosphere. I know as a believer who has went to church burdened, validly burdened that it really is an unedifying time.

Good point as well about someone suffering, it being a logical choice to someone who is suffering. I can see that.

To fundybeliever- I'm not sure that is true, "That if any pastor is lonely it's his own fault". There are some environments(say a dancing hall or a theme park) that make serious conversation nearly impossible. Sadly, some churches have that same theme park like feel, or cheesy family reunion feel. And in those churches(during the service or before or after the service) it's hard to discuss real issues.

Just as a boy who's been raised by wolves has picked up a few strange habits, so believers who've been raised in the church(the carnival like atmosphere that exists at most churches) have also picked up a few bad habits. One of them is the inability to have deep, biblical, real, conversation. This means that a lot of people at churches(especially the unmarried) are lonely and are not receiving the type of fellowship that the Bible says is the very reason we gather together(to hype each other up to keep living lives of service).

 

[gb93433]

Just as a boy who's been raised by wolves has picked up a few strange habits, so believers who've been raised in the church(the carnival like atmosphere that exists at most churches) have also picked up a few bad habits. One of them is the inability to have deep, biblical, real, conversation. This means that a lot of people at churches(especially the unmarried) are lonely and are not receiving the type of fellowship that the Bible says is the very reason we gather together(to hype each other up to keep living lives of service).

Think about who leads in being real with people. The pastor. How many have you met who are real? The problem is that when a pastor is real too often he is viewed as having trouble and there is a problem. He is viewed as not being a leader and unfit for service. Let's face it. Most people do not care much about others. Examine your own conversations and see how much people genuinely care. They want somebody to listen to them. They want the pastor to care for them instead of caring for the pastor.

 

[Mexdeaf]

Think about who leads in being real with people. The pastor. How many have you met who are real? The problem is that when a pastor is real too often he is viewed as having trouble and there is a problem. He is viewed as not being a leader and unfit for service. Let's face it. Most people do not care much about others. Examine your own conversations and see how much people genuinely care. They want somebody to listen to them. They want the pastor to care for them instead of caring for the pastor.

100% truth here. People expect their pastor to be Superman in spite of his living in a Kryptonite world. I would be afraid to know how few of my flock actually pray for me at least once a week.

 

[christianyouth]

Think about who leads in being real with people. The pastor. How many have you met who are real? The problem is that when a pastor is real too often he is viewed as having trouble and there is a problem. He is viewed as not being a leader and unfit for service. Let's face it. Most people do not care much about others. Examine your own conversations and see how much people genuinely care. They want somebody to listen to them. They want the pastor to care for them instead of caring for the pastor.

Ahh... very true.. Sad but true.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

I think clinical depression is often overlooked with views on suicide. It is possible that the brain suffered chemical imballance and the man acted in a way not consistent with their beliefs or morals or faith. We see how people degenerate with alsheimers and do not behave in a manner consistent with their personalities.