For what, that God has wrath towards sins and sinners? John 3:18!
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Rise of Calvinism pt.2
- Thread starter Iconoclast
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It is the prominent view held by Calvinists and Reformed people.
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
Ah yes, classic attacks with no basis in reality of anything that has to do with the doctrine itself.
Wrong.
The verse says
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
It does not say "God's wrath towards sin needs an object".
If we want to go that route, how about all of those financial and sexual sins done by ole free willers Charismatics leaders past several decades?
Mine states that those not in Christ already stand condemned and judged, wrath of go upon them!
meant John 3:18!
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
I also don't think church growth has any sort of barometer on the matter either. Not to mention, you would have to get a much larger sample size over a much broader range of area. I'm telling you, this is not something that is quantifiable. This is also why I HAVE NOT ARGUED that it is increasing. Not sure why you keep projecting that on me.
I don't know whether it is increasing or decreasing or staying the same and neither does Barna and their decade old research that you misleadingly presented as if it were 2019 research (which you still have yet to retract and instead made excuses for).
Tu quoque fallacy
I see. You were just trolling rather than discussing the topic of the thread (a subject towards which you have no opinion or idea by your comments).
same thing you were doing....
How? I have made no accusations of wrong.
You seemed to be saying due to those people falling into sin, that means theology was suspect!
I said "tu quoque fallacy", that's all. You added the rest.
EDITED - I THINK YOU CONFUSED ME WITH JEROME.
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
Of course this is a false statement. I HAVE been discussing the topic. But I see you are back to your old ways, noted.
Then to the OP,
Do you think Calvinism is in fact growing and if so what is your data?
Do you think I Calvinism is declining and if so what is your data?
Do you think Calvinism is stagnant and if do what us your data?
I think it is stagnent based on the data I provided.
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
I think we don't know.
The data you provided shows nothing and is faulty in their method and reasoning. This is not something quantifiable in my opinion. That being said, the data you showed is also a decade old and has no bearing on today.
I think the data is relevant as that was the height of the Calvinism growth debate. The issue itself is old. We're Calvinism growing I suspect we would see more Calvinistic growth. Instead we see various movements (although small) within Calvinism increasingly moving away from traditional Calvinism. There has been several publications reintroducing Torrance and his reforms, for example. 15 years ago Calvinism seemed to have hit the vogue status, but now they are bleeding into the woodwork.
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
Here's the better question, does the amount of followers even matter? Does the amount of people following a teaching determine the validity of that teaching?
It matters to the OP (the topic is the rise of Calvinism).
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
My question would actually be to both sides of that debate.
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