Robots and Free Will

[Skandelon]

That's a good answer!

But did Lucifer have that nature in heaven?

When lucifer was in heaven sin hadn't yet been defeated, so I'd say no, he didn't have that nature. He had a mutable nature, which is able to be corrupted by sin.

Also, since we are not God like Jesus was and is, can we ever have a nature completely like Him?

We were made in the image of God, the scripture never indicates that the angels were also, so I suspect things are different for us than them.

“The yearning to know what cannot be known, to comprehend the incomprehensible, to touch and taste the unapproachable, arises from the image of God in the nature of man. Deep calleth unto deep, and though polluted and landlocked by the mighty disaster theologians call the Fall, the soul senses its origin and longs to return to its source.”
― A.W. Tozer

 

[Michael Wrenn]

When lucifer was in heaven sin hadn't yet been defeated, so I'd say no, he didn't have that nature. He had a mutable nature, which is able to be corrupted by sin.



We were made in the image of God, the scripture never indicates that the angels were also, so I suspect things are different for us than them.

“The yearning to know what cannot be known, to comprehend the incomprehensible, to touch and taste the unapproachable, arises from the image of God in the nature of man. Deep calleth unto deep, and though polluted and landlocked by the mighty disaster theologians call the Fall, the soul senses its origin and longs to return to its source.”
― A.W. Tozer

That's a good, well-reasoned, and logical response. It's a thought-producer, so I'll think on it.

 

[percho]

I have no problem with that. My point was that we can worship God without the opportunity to rebel. God showed his mercy. If there was no sin, there would have been no mercy needed.

I totally agree and if there had been no sin there would have been no evil.
Why did Cain kill his brother Abel?

I know most on here get tired of me posting but think about it.

Where did this sin and evil really come from? God created the first man Adam with ability to make a choice but why does man make the choices he makes? There are none righteous no not one. Why has not one man conceived by man born of woman been able to make the right choices?

Why did God create man? Why did he create him as he did? I do not believe man fell from anything. Why from the time it was said "Let their be light," the Lamb had been slain.

Why was the serpent, Satan the Devil in the garden God had planted and where God put the man he had made?

From my SS lesson this morning. Luke 4:5,6,7 And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it. If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.

My SS teacher said he was lying for he was a lair from the beginning.
Was he lying? Did Jesus call his hand on this statement?

Heb 2:5 For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world (Same Greek word as in Luke 4) to come, whereof we speak.

What is man?

Man was made so that the Christ could be born as a man and die so that through death he could destroy the devil who has the power of death. This was done through God the Father giving life again to his only begotten Son who had died by resurrection from the dead. When we are resurrected from the dead as he was, we will be created in the same image as he, "who is the image of the invisible God, first-born of all creation," Who is, "the beginning, the firstborn from the dead: that in all he might have the preeminence."

What is man?


But we see Jesus.

And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: (Same Greek word as other two.) he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Was Satan here when man arrived on the scene?

Are we not like we are because God made us as we are for a purpose?

Is this a totally warped understanding of the scriptures and if so please point out to me why so?

 

[percho]

I have no problem with that. My point was that we can worship God without the opportunity to rebel. God showed his mercy. If there was no sin, there would have been no mercy needed.

I totally agree and if there had been no sin there would have been no evil.
Why did Cain kill his brother Abel?

I know most on here get tired of me posting but think about it.

Where did this sin and evil really come from? God created the first man Adam with ability to make a choice but why does man make the choices he makes? There are none righteous no not one. Why has not one man conceived by man born of woman been able to make the right choices?

Why did God create man? Why did he create him as he did? I do not believe man fell from anything. Why from the time it was said "Let their be light," the Lamb had been slain.

Why was the serpent, Satan the Devil in the garden God had planted and where God put the man he had made?

From my SS lesson this morning. Luke 4:5,6,7 And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it. If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.

My SS teacher said he was lying for he was a lair from the beginning.
Was he lying? Did Jesus call his hand on this statement?

Heb 2:5 For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world (Same Greek word as in Luke 4) to come, whereof we speak.

What is man?

Man was made so that the Christ could be born as a man and die so that through death he could destroy the devil who has the power of death. This was done through God the Father giving life again to his only begotten Son who had died by resurrection from the dead. When we are resurrected from the dead as he was, we will be created in the same image as he, "who is the image of the invisible God, first-born of all creation," Who is, "the beginning, the firstborn from the dead: that in all he might have the preeminence."

What is man?


But we see Jesus.

And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: (Same Greek word as other two.) he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Are we not like we are because God made us as we are for a purpose?

Is this a totally warped understanding of the scriptures and if so please point out to me why so?

 

[percho]

Sorry about the double post. Don't know what happened.

 

[Forest]

Same ol, same ol, but the obvious truth is dodged yet again. Can we repent if our repentance is predestined and therefore compelled by God?
No, we were doing God's predestined actions when we sinned and we were doing God's predestined actions when we turned by God's compulsion to God. This action would not bring glory to God.

The Calvinist view is without merit, God causes us to sin and then punishes us for the sins He compelled. This is not a rational view and therefore it is hidden as best they can.

God knows every thng that we do, but God does not predestine every thing that we do. Thats called absolutism and is a false doctrine.

 

[convicted1]

God knows every thng that we do, but God does not predestine every thing that we do. Thats called absolutism and is a false doctrine.

:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

 

[Forest]

Heaven may not be exactly as we expect. We might be able to do wrong in heaven. John by mistake worshipped an angel or fellow believer in heaven.

Rev 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

If John was indeed in heaven when this occurred, he made a mistake, he worshipped an angel or fellow believer, and this person corrected him.

So, perhaps we will never be absolutely 100% perfect, even in heaven.

And perhaps there can even be sickness or physical injury in heaven.

Rev 22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:

Why would the leaves of the tree of life be needed for healing if there is no sickness or injury in heaven?

I am not making dogmatic statements here, I am simply mentioning these verses that seem to show a person might err or make a mistake in heaven, and that perhaps sickness or injury can occur there. Of course, we would be healed by the leaves of the tree of life and never die.

If so, we will not be robots or puppets in heaven.

Jesus was a perfect man who never sinned. 1 John 3:2 says it doeth not yet appear what we shall be, but we know that when he shall appear, we shall be like him.

 

[convicted1]

Jesus was a perfect man who never sinned. 1 John 3:2 says it doeth not yet appear what we shall be, but we know that when he shall appear, we shall be like him.

:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

 

[Forest]

Winman, I was referring to moral evil. Will there be moral evil in heaven.

No, not unless Christ is morally evil, 1 John 3:2.