Rockytopva at 3 Million

[Marooncat79]

I have read my bible through many times. My favorite theologian is John Bunyan and I have read his complete library at Virginia Tech.

The bible, especially Revelation, is written with much metaphor. I cannot believe one can study Revelation, and the bible, and see the same perspective as another fellow believer. You will agree and disagree on the interpretation of different passages...

John Bunyan was a great writer in metaphors/parables and he explains the use of them in his "The Barren Fig-tree" work):

6 He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none.
7 Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground?
8 And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung it:
9 And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down. - Luke 13:6-9

In parables there are two things to be taken notice of, and to be inquired into of them that read.

First, The metaphors made use of.
Second, The doctrine or mysteries couched under such metaphors.

The metaphors in this parable are,
1. A certain man;
2. A vineyard;
3. A fig-tree, barren or fruitless;
4. A dresser;
5. Three years;
6. Digging and dunging, &c.

The doctrine, or mystery, couched under these words is to show us what is like to become of a fruitless or formal professor. For,

1. By the man in the parable is meant God the Father (Luke 15:11).
2. By the vineyard, his church (Isa 5:7).
3. By the fig-tree, a professor.
4. By the dresser, the Lord Jesus.
5. By the fig-tree's barrenness, the professor's fruitlessness.
6. By the three years, the patience of God that for a time he extendeth to barren professors.
7. This calling to the dresser of the vineyard to cut it down, is to show the outcries of justice against fruitless professors.
8. The dresser's interceding is to show how the Lord Jesus steps in, and takes hold of the head of his Father's axe, to stop, or at least to defer, the present execution of a barren fig-tree.
9. The dresser's desire to try to make the fig-tree fruitful, is to show you how unwilling he is that even a barren fig-tree should yet be barren, and perish.
10. His digging about it, and dunging of it, is to show his willingness to apply gospel helps to this barren professor, if haply he may be fruitful.
11. The supposition that the fig-tree may yet continue fruitless, is to show, that when Christ Jesus hath done all, there are some professors will abide barren and fruitless.
12. The determination upon this supposition, at last to cut it down, is a certain prediction of such professor's unavoidable and eternal damnation.

But to take this parable into pieces, and to discourse more particularly, though with all brevity, upon all the parts thereof. 'A certain MAN had a fig-tree planted in his vineyard.' The MAN, I told you, is to present us with God the Father; by which similitude he is often set out in the New Testament. Observe then, that it is no new thing, if you find in God's church barren fig-trees, fruitless professors; even as here you see is a tree, a fruitless tree, a fruitless fig-tree in the vineyard.

Fruit is not so easily brought forth as a profession is got into; it is easy for a man to clothe himself with a fair show in the flesh, to word it, and say, Be thou warmed and filled with the best. It is no hard thing to do these with other things; but to be fruitful, to bring forth fruit to God, this doth not every tree, no not every fig-tree that stands in the vineyard of God. Those words also, 'Every branch in me that beareth not fruit, he taketh away,' assert the same thing (John 15:2). There are branches in Christ, in Christ's body mystical, which is his church, his vineyard, that bear not fruit, wherefore the hand of God is to take them away: I looked for grapes, and it brought forth wild grapes, that is, no fruit at all that was acceptable with God (Isa 5:4). Again, 'Israel is an empty vine, he bringeth forth fruit unto himself,' none to God; he is without fruit to God (Hosea 10:1). All these, with many more, show us the truth of the observation, and that God's church may be cumbered with fruitless fig-trees, with barren professors.

You are a false teacher. This is taught nowhere in scripture

 

[rockytopva]

You are a false teacher. This is taught nowhere in scripture

I have provided plenty of scripture.

 

[Marooncat79]

Your have quoted scripture; however, the scripture that you quoted does not support your claims.

 

[rockytopva]

Your have quoted scripture; however, the scripture that you quoted does not support your claims.

I believe a spirit of variance will contend no matter the argument.

 

[robycop3]

I once attended a "holiness" church service & soon thought I'd entered a funny farm by accident, as the preacher was screeching incomprehensively, & people were yelling, just making noise, with some cutting dust angels on the floor. While I was unsaved at the time, I still thought, "How can THIS madness be HONORING GOD?" I soon left, & was somewhat discouraged from attending any church for awhile.

Schambach & some of those other pentecostal quax remind me some of that madhouse, "having a form of godliness while denying its POWER".

 

[rockytopva]

I once attended a "holiness" church service & soon thought I'd entered a funny farm by accident, as the preacher was screeching incomprehensively, & people were yelling, just making noise, with some cutting dust angels on the floor. While I was unsaved at the time, I still thought, "How can THIS madness be HONORING GOD?" I soon left, & was somewhat discouraged from attending any church for awhile.

Schambach & some of those other pentecostal quax remind me some of that madhouse, "having a form of godliness while denying its POWER".

Three experiences…

Saved - Simply accepting Christ by faith
Sanctified - Experiencing Christ spiritually
Filled with the Holy Spirit - What I would call the witness of the spirit

I like the old Methodist way sanctification was taught. If the old timers could not sense the sweet spirit of Christ in the experience they would tell you to come back tomorrow night. And smile a little as they said it, especially knowing that there were revivals and good services ahead.

My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you... - Galatians 4:19

Once the Christ was formed the soul was considered sanctified. With the sanctification was a wonderful spirituality…

...but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. - 1 Corinthians 6:4

There is no need of Calvin, Arminius, Spurgeon, Luther, and Boice... Or any other name when the Holy Spirit is with us! If we have the Holy Spirit deep down in the heart... What is the need of assurance? If the Spirit of God dwells deep within, helped along by faith in the Lord Jesus, there is simply no need of mans input to help things along.

In the video below is the farmer I would work for in the hay field... Dallas would shout at work, shout in the hay field, and shout in church. He would also speak in tongues and run the aisles. He and his wife would operate a dairy farm and he would also work at the local ammunition plant. A very large soul his shouting would ring through the building. In the altar services he would kneel behind me in prayer and tears would roll off his cheek and onto my shoulders. A wonderfully large soul. Along with Dallas there were many others like him who would let the praises roll during church service. During the altar service old Evans Linkous used to weep like a baby. And if he were to look back to catch the amazed look in my eye he would weep, "The Holy Ghost! The Holy Ghost!" And point to all the souls being blessed around the altar. After I experienced these things for myself the people would make a fuss, or in the words of the Apostle Paul, glorify God in me.

You can hear Dallas shouting in the background in this short three minute video. Dallas and Pastor Vaught have went went on to glory.

 

[robycop3]

Was there an INTERPRETER present when he spoke in an unknown language? Were there others thus speaking? Remember, paul wrote that all was to be done IN AN ORDERLY MANNER. A tongue-speaker must have an interpreter present or else hold his speech. And only one was to speak at a time.

Not long ago, I saw a well-known pentecostal teleminister, at the end of his show, supposedly speaking in an unknown tongue, when the service was over, & he was delivering his advertising spiel, with no one else near. I knew right off this was phony as a $3 bill, typical for a pentecostal teleminister.

Remember 1 Cor. 14, especially V. 23:
Therefore if the whole church comes together in one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those who are uninformed or unbelievers, will they not say that you are out of your mind?

 

[rockytopva]

Was there an INTERPRETER present when he spoke in an unknown language? Were there others thus speaking? Remember, paul wrote that all was to be done IN AN ORDERLY MANNER. A tongue-speaker must have an interpreter present or else hold his speech. And only one was to speak at a time.

Not long ago, I saw a well-known pentecostal teleminister, at the end of his show, supposedly speaking in an unknown tongue, when the service was over, & he was delivering his advertising spiel, with no one else near. I knew right off this was phony as a $3 bill, typical for a pentecostal teleminister.

Remember 1 Cor. 14, especially V. 23:
Therefore if the whole church comes together in one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those who are uninformed or unbelievers, will they not say that you are out of your mind?

The people in the Youtube videos were shouting and rejoicing in the service, so there was no need for interpretations as tongues were not given out in a message. I frankly miss the old Methodist ways that I was brought up in. I plan on writing a little paper on it and mailing it around. It is especially frightening for me to see the departure of the teachings of Sanctification the Wesleyan way. It was said in these mountains, back in the 1800's, that there was an old farmer who got upset with his horse for not plowing straight wind rows and then proceeds to whip his horse. His wife then hollers off the front porch "Not yet honey! Not yet!" When you get sanctified the Wesleyan way the first creatures to know about it are the family pets. Instead of kicking them you will rub them and show a little love.

My Great (5) Grandfather Pugh served in the Revolutionary War
My Great (4) Grandfather Pugh settled here in Floyd County, VA
My Great-Great-Great Grandfather Pugh farmed the land in the mid 1800's
My Great-Great Grandfather Pugh fought in the Civil War and had 13 children
My Great Grandmother, Flora Pugh, was the twelfth child and took care of her parents until the last one passed away in 1915.

And there is an old, abandoned Methodist church that sits by the old homesteads. The advantage that I have is that my family lived ripe old ages. My Great Grandmother grilled the old Methodist ways into the head of my grandmother, who also repeated those ways in my ears. My grandmother passed away at age 89 back in 2009 and I miss her dearly.

The old Methodist ways are this...

1. You worked hard Mo-Fr
2. You normally cashed your checks and stopped by the store on Fridays
3. You went to town (looking nice) on Saturday Mornings
4. You finished up the weekly chores Saturday afternoons
5. Fun and family Saturday nights
6. You went to church every Sunday
7. No work was ever done on the Sabbath.
***There were actual blue laws keeping these businesses closed on Sundays.

And the experiences taught like this...
1. Justification - Faith
2. Salvation - Accepting Jesus
3. Sanctification - Came with a sweet spirit... And with shouting!
4. Witness of the Spirit -Evidenced by the Holy Spirit - I do not believe any two will get the Holy Spirit the same way.

My Great Grandmother, Flora Pugh, was the twelfth child and took care of her parents until the last one passed away in 1915. She would become Pentecostal Holiness but the lifestyle was identical to the Methodist before. Our old pastor, Pastor Vaught, was from South Carolina and carried the same spirit that came down through the family. Here is another video of him.