Rod Bell no longer at his church

[Pastor Larry]

My friend, God is the one who said to make the sins of elders public. His name is not only within a hundred miles of it, it is stamped on it from 1 Tim 5. The general rule of thumb is "The extent of the knowledge and affect is the extent of the confession." Thousands of people were members of the organization this man was president of. They deserve an explanation and a public confession from this man. He did what he should have done.

It is not about whether the glass if half full or half empty. It is completely empty because of the nature of this sin. It can be refilled, so to speak, but there must be public confession because it was a public issue.

Now that proper biblical steps have been taken, the matter is resolved. He should be accountable to a local church that he is a member of and he should be forgiven. That should be the end of it.

 

[Precepts]

Thousands of people were members of the organization this man was president of. They deserve an explanation and a public confession from this man. He did what he should have done.

I wasn't a member and I doubt you are to, so this staement is become totally irrelevent and demeaning: "If you're not part of the solution, then don't become part of the problem".

I'm glad he "did" what he should have done, but I don't even know what he's done to make reconciliation and I am also ignoring the rest of the report of his bad behaviour.

It is completely empty because of the nature of this sin. It can be refilled, so to speak, but there must be public confession because it was a public issue.

Now that is uncalled for, just because a man is "caught" he becomes empty? No, just as he is not empty for sin just because it became a matter of public information.

I do see a positive note on your behalf that he can be refilled. I am looking at this from my standpoint as a Christian who does claim I John 1:9 more than I like to admit, but then the degree of sin hasn't reached that point, but the even more haneous crime is when people run it all over the world via internet and right here on BB/ a Christian forum.

We can "hash" it out in a debate, but to drag some one into the picture that wasn't there to begin is leaning way over the line and towards slander. If it's not slander, it's gossip, which gossip usually embraces slander in it's process.

It seems more of a vindication issue than edification. Rod Bell is not a public official needing public reprimand.

Proverbs 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.

I mentioned Clinton in the regard of his "crime" against society, he was the President of the US and in the public eye to be an example, though there are comparisons to the Rod bel;l incident as a matter made public, there is the standard of separation of church and state. It's the realm in which they two are members.

Now, would you consider yourself on the side of God, falling into His hands, who would deal rather harshly, but yet having mercy, or would you rather fall into the hands of men/ kings, that would search out the matter and ruling and reigning over your spirit and the spirit of all those who are influenced by this becoming tossed into the mainstream of the media and left to ravening wolves to devour?

In this perspective and in the case of kings, I can hear the proclaimation,"Turn him over to the people and let them tear him to pieces if they so desire." abd they will, they always do. In the case of real Christians they would show mercy and a willingness to forgive, keep it a matter as God Himself would and conceal it from public scrutiny.

In a similar matter by comparison, when Pilate turned Jesus over to the people, they cried, "Crucify! Crucify him!", but seems I can almost see those He healed, those He raised from the dead, those He had mercy and cast devils out of them, those He preached the Gospel of peace, saying, "Please have mercy upon Him, He's done nothing amiss"

I could deal with this subject quite further, but I believe the point is made and not requiring more.

Now that proper biblical steps have been taken, the matter is resolved. He should be accountable to a local church that he is a member of and he should be forgiven. That should be the end of it.

I only pray this could be the case, but we ought to realize the damage done to the minds of those who are nothing more than innocent bystanders, now their minds are corrupted and will react to even the mention of his name, "Rod Bell. Isn't he the one...?"

See the reason behind Proverbs 25:2?

 

[Pastor KevinR]

Originally posted by Pastor Larry:
My friend, God is the one who said to make the sins of elders public.
but there must be public confession because it was a public issue.

"for whom much is given much is required" I agree w/ PL on this, and also we certainly must follow Gal 6:1, by having the spirit of meekness. Restoration must be sought, grieve for him and love him. But open sin requires open rebuke. Let's all commit to pray for our brorher!

 

[Precepts]

Originally posted by Pastor KevinR:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Pastor Larry:
My friend, God is the one who said to make the sins of elders public.
but there must be public confession because it was a public issue.

"for whom much is given much is required" I agree w/ PL on this, and also we certainly must follow Gal 6:1, by having the spirit of meekness. Restoration must be sought, grieve for him and love him. But open sin requires open rebuke. Let's all commit to pray for our brorher! </font>[/QUOTE]Call him up and rebuke him then, all I see is his dirty laundry spread across the cyber-world. Not one of these posts is directed to Rod Bell, but they sure are saying alot about his sin.

I don't disagree with the scriptures used in regards to the situation, I DO disagree with yall using a public accessed forum to exhibit your judgement. But then that is the root of the problem, no real mercy, just judgement. If you had the compassion that ought to be shown, you would leave the guy alone and let him settle things locally and with God, instead you add insult to injury.

No wonder David desired to fall into the hands of God rather than into the hands of men; he knew he would find mercy where judgement was deserved,

but in the hands of men, he knew he would hear them profess mercy, but be led to the gallows of their judgement.

I'll learn my lesson here, brothers, not to enter a topic that names names.

 

[Daniel David]

How oh so spiritual that all sounds. It ought to serve as a very strong warning to those of us who are in the preaching ministry. Yes it is shameful. Yes I am sure he wishes it never happened and that no one would know about it. However, that is the consequence of sin.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

QS, please be advised that now you know how many of us feel when folks start talking about the personalities and issues in SBC. While Brother Bell and the FBF maybe irrelevant to you and your ministry (no doubt for good and sufficient reasons), he and they are very relevant to many of here.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

All that we KNOW is this -
Dr Bell was arrested for public intoxication
He resigned as pastor of his church
A period of time elapsed between the two.

Everything else is pure conjecture. His local church has the job of dealing with any open rebuke required. If anything, Dr Bell should be invited to be a part of this discussion.

It is not the job of the general public to discuss any man's sin. Would any of us want a thread started to discuss our own personal sins?

 

[Pastor Larry]

QS,

You are the one who voluntarily entered this discussion. You did not have to read one single thing in here. You are the one who inserted yourself into this situation. If it is not relevant to you, then don't read it. But don't come in here, read something you claim you shouldn't, and then blame us. Do us a favor and don't click the link if you don't want to read. As Squire pointed out, it is relevant to many. We did nothing wrong here.

God made public the private lives on many, such as Noah, David, Samson, etc. Why? So that we who follow would learn ... just like 1 Tim 5 says about the NT people.

When I said it was completely empty, my point is that there is nothing good here. The name of Christ has been blasphemed. The enemies of Christ have been given occasion to blaspheme. He can get forgiveness and be a forgiven and fully functionign member of the body. But public sin needs public exposure.

Whether you like it or not, Rod Bell was a public official in a public organization. If anyone ever looks at Rod Bell and says "Wasn't he the one..." Bell will have no one to blame but himself. Sin has consequences. To this day, after 3000 years, we look at David and say, "Wasn't he the one?" Hopefully, we learned the lesson from David. And hopefully this lesson will cause us to be wary of our own lives in the spirit of Gal 6:1

 

[Precepts]

James 5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
1 Peter 4:8 And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins.

DD:

How oh so spiritual that all sounds. It ought to serve as a very strong warning to those of us who are in the preaching ministry. Yes it is shameful. Yes I am sure he wishes it never happened and that no one would know about it. However, that is the consequence of sin.

Would I then be able to reply,"How Oh so unspiritual?"


Squire:

QS, please be advised that now you know how many of us feel when folks start talking about the personalities and issues in SBC. While Brother Bell and the FBF maybe irrelevant to you and your ministry (no doubt for good and sufficient reasons), he and they are very relevant to many of here.

I hope this isn't the attempt to let feelings over-ride Biblical facts in the handling of the matter.

Since it doesn't involve the entire world, then maybe the subject best be discussed without their being able to view?

Maybe this is a suggestion to get out of the "black-balling" SBC? They are getting quite a reputation for this. Wonder how they restore and yet destroy in the process? Can't be done, you have to leave enough of a man to rebuild him and that can't be done from the ashes, unless you are God.

Bro. Roger:

Everything else is pure conjecture. His local church has the job of dealing with any open rebuke required. If anything, Dr Bell should be invited to be a part of this discussion.

It is not the job of the general public to discuss any man's sin. Would any of us want a thread started to discuss our own personal sins?

A-MEN!


Since and according to posts by Larry, the rebuke has been done by his fellowship and local church, I think it's time to quit dragging him across the "splinters of glass" and begin a public restoration to his previous estate, no, not to his previous position, but in the position in the eyes of all men: a sinner receiving mercy, not further condemnation.

Squire, I fully understand the position of those who are associated with Rod Bell, and now it's time for them to do the right thing.

If some one doesn't stand up for what is so clearly laid out in scripture to restore the m,an, then the unconverted world is justified in wanting to have nothing to do with the "church crowd" because of the lack of forgiveness for even our own.

Reminder: The world is already condemned, condemned by satan in his merciless nature, but Jesus came not to condemn, but to save from all sin, past, present and future.

I make no excuse for the man's behaviour, just plead with the brethren to handle this appropiately, scripturally, humanely.

Church disciplinary action should always be a heartbreak to all involved, but it seems more like to gloat and spread it all over creation, that is shameful and unnecessary. That is unspiritual.

 

[Precepts]

You are the one who voluntarily entered this discussion. You did not have to read one single thing in here. You are the one who inserted yourself into this situation. If it is not relevant to you, then don't read it. But don't come in here, read something you claim you shouldn't, and then blame us. Do us a favor and don't click the link if you don't want to read. As Squire pointed out, it is relevant to many. We did nothing wrong here.

I read the title and saw it needed a response from some body who really does care about people who mess up. and now you jump all over me and try to deny me my right as a BB member to access what is on the public forum.

It also seems that you are more interested in further slander than restoration and your behaviour is evident of your rage.

My motive is only to enlighten, not enrage.

I sent out a plea for forgiveness, and then get responses like this.

Do you really forgive the man? You, your self said he stepped down and apologized. Can you accept an apology?

I'm sorry you and others think it's none of my business, but yall published in the public forum, involving those who knew nothing about it, then you try to disassociate other members by remarks like the quote.

Are you looking back at an axe handle by chance? I thought we buried that one! Have you gone and found you another?

It's relevent to me, a man of God, when I see some one being mistreated to excercize my right as an individual to rescue the perishing, You?

Do you deny me access to BB? Have that authority?

Maybe, Larry you're problem isn't with me, I don't have a personal problem with you, and I'm really sorry if you see it that way.

Sheep don't devour sheep.

To this day, after 3000 years, we look at David and say, "Wasn't he the one?"

Would you really dig up the bones of David's past and also fail to see his repentence and suffering for sin also unable to come to the place of forgiving and forgetting the offense?

I find David's account as scripture, but not Rod Bell's.

Wasn't it the catholic diosys that dug up Joh Wycliffe's bones and burned them due to their hatred?

Are we not Baptists and speak out against the practices of the RCC?

I plead with you, brethren, not rail on you, please understand.

 

[Pastor Larry]

Originally posted by QuickeningSpirit:
I read the title and saw it needed a response from some body who really does care about people who mess up. and now you jump all over me and try to deny me my right as a BB member to access what is on the public forum.

I wasn't trying to deny your access to anything. You are the one who said it was irrelevant to you and I merely pointed out that you were here of your own free will. You did not have to read a word of it. YOu did that of your own accord and therefore, you have no one to blame but yourself if you are offended by this conversation.

I have pointed out both the biblical mandate for such a discussion and the biblical pattern for it. If you don't like that, then you need to address those Scriptures and tell us why they are not relevant.

It also seems that you are more interested in further slander than restoration and your behaviour is evident of your rage.[/uqote]I am not mad; it doesn't bother me. I have not slandered anyone. Everything said here is a matter of public record. It was printed in a national publication.

Do you really forgive the man? You, your self said he stepped down and apologized. Can you accept an apology?

He didn't sin against me really, so I am the one to forgive. Someone asked a question and I answered it, using the Scripture as the basis for doing so.

I'm sorry you and others think it's none of my business, but yall published in the public forum, involving those who knew nothing about it, then you try to disassociate other members by remarks like the quote.

What you must know is that a whole lot of people still don't know anything about it because they didn't come in here. Your choice to read here is not our fault.

Are you looking back at an axe handle by chance? I thought we buried that one! Have you gone and found you another?

Hadn't thought of that in the least. That was over.

It's relevent to me, a man of God, when I see some one being mistreated to excercize my right as an individual to rescue the perishing, You?

WHy are we getting blamed for what Rod Bell did wrong??? How can you accuse us of mistreating him??? Most of us haven't treated him at all, much less mistreated him. To my knowledge, the only unsubstantiated claim on this board was about financial mishandling of the FBF funds. I said I didn't hear anything about it. We are not mistreating anyone. Sin must be dealt with for those whom it affects. There are those here who are members of the FBF. I am not one of them. Their president just had to resign from his position; they deserve an explanation.

]Would you really dig up the bones of David's past and also fail to see his repentence and suffering for sin also unable to come to the place of forgiving and forgetting the offense?

Forgetting is not a part of biblical forgiveness. But I have not dredged up anyone's sins while failing to see forgiveness. That is not at issue.

Let me remind you that someone here asked the facts of the matter. That is what this is about.

Are we not Baptists and speak out against the practices of the RCC?

Totally irrelevant. No place in this discussion.

I plead with you, brethren, not rail on you, please understand.

We understand. When an elder sins, rebuke him publicly so that others may fear (1 Tim 5). When someone falls restore him in a spirit of meekness considering yourself so that you will not also be tempted (Gal 6:1).

These are the mandates of Scripture. Live by them or at least understand that is what we are doing. We are not making public something that is not already known. We are not gossiping or slandering.

And neither am I telling you what to read on the board. I am merely saying that if you voluntarily read it, you can't also complain that you read it.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Quote from Pastor Larry - There are those here who are members of the FBF. I am not one of them. Their president just had to resign from his position; they deserve an explanation.

I am satisfied with the explanation. I am comfrtbale in letting his local church deal with the matter now.

 

[Precepts]

I never disagreed with the scripture, just the publishing of the situation, that has been clear all along and others evidently feel the same way and we are justified.

Biblical restoration certainly involves forgetting, forgetting the offense. Though one cannot forget the actual occurance of an offnese, the hurt caused by that offense when it is truly forgiven, is forgotten, else the hurt arises out of the grave and bitterness springs up again and defiles.

My words are not accusation, but admonishing, advice.

I opt put ,Larry, because you have misunderstood my motive.

 

[Pastor Larry]

I will answer this in your other thread as well, but the issue of "forgetting" is much misunderstood. We as humans can not very likely forget, either the offense of hte hurt. And forgetting is not required in forgiveness. Otherwise we could never forgive.

I will continue this in the other thread so as not to get off topic here.

 

[Dr. Bob]

Some men's preaching (pulpiteering) style comes across as bullying and mean-spirited. While I enjoyed knowing some personally, I could not stand their public persona.

And they probably thought the same of me!

That said, Rod Bell lost favor and respect in my eyes, along with the historic group of which I was a part - the Fundamental Baptist Fellowship. I withdrew from it in the mid-80's when it began attacking ACE schools (if it wasn't Bob Jones, it wasn't godly).

Many, many of the men looked upon as "heros" 20-30 years ago have fallen. Sad.

 

[Dr. Bob]

BTW, the "Wine" prescription is a crock. My wife has a capsule of concentrated grape skin/seed that does the same WITHOUT any alcohol.

Public intoxication would fit into qualification #1 in I Timothy 3's list of things that were NOT blameless or above reproach.

 

[Daniel]

Having been a staff member with Dr. Bell at Tabernacle Baptist Church, I was hurt and shocked at what happened to Dr. Bell. I just found this out from another former staff member. We have many fond memories of our time with Pastor Bell. We are naturally disappointed, but remember that we must put no confidence in the flesh. A few posts back someone talked about forgiveness and restoration to fellowship. That is the Biblical plan. Let's be sure to do it for the cause of Christ. Seeing this stuff plastered all over the internet already hurts the cause of Christ enough. Let's not add to it through further abuse and insult. Dr. Bell did wrong, but he is another human like us that needs the forgiveness and cleansing of the blood of Christ. On a personal note, we always found Dr. Bell to be an inspiration to us to have faith in God. He was also there at the worst possible trials of our life as a comforter and friend. We will never forget his care. This doesn't remove this incident, but it does commmuincate a different picture of Dr. Bell from someone who worked with him on a day-in-day-out basis. Let's have the humble spirit referred to a few posts back. It could be any of us but for the grace of God. Brethren, beware!

 

[paul hadik]

at the risk of going off the road...I have always wondered about that phrase "hurt the cause of Christ"
no one will ever be damned by God due to the actions of others. The excuse "well, those Christians were such hypocrites I didn't want anything to do with it all" won't work at the judgement seat.

If our lives can "hurt the cause of Christ" the the cause is on fairly weak ground.

not meaning to split hairs but I don't think my Sovereign King ever throws his hands up in the air and says "Great! Thanks a heap Rod Bell and the rest of you! Gotta start over now!"

back to sleep now.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Originally posted by Dr. Bob Griffin:

Public intoxication would fit into qualification #1 in I Timothy 3's list of things that were NOT blameless or above reproach.

Dr Bob,

This is exactly what Dr Bell said in his resignation letter and the address to church.

 

[Pastor Larry]

Originally posted by paul hadik:
at the risk of going off the road...I have always wondered about that phrase "hurt the cause of Christ"
no one will ever be damned by God due to the actions of others. The excuse "well, those Christians were such hypocrites I didn't want anything to do with it all" won't work at the judgement seat.

If our lives can "hurt the cause of Christ" the the cause is on fairly weak ground.

not meaning to split hairs but I don't think my Sovereign King ever throws his hands up in the air and says "Great! Thanks a heap Rod Bell and the rest of you! Gotta start over now!"

back to sleep now.

I am not worried about our sovereign God throwing up his hands about anything. But Nathan did tell David that his actions had given great cause to the enemies of God to blaspheme. Paul references similar ideas in Titus 2 about our behavior reflecting properly on teh gospel. I am as much a sovereigntist as anybody here, but there does seem to be some merit to hurting the cause by our behavior.