Gup20
Active Member
And don't forget Romans 4:5
Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
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Rom 5:15-17
- Thread starter savedbymercy
- Start date
And don't forget Romans 4:5
Jerry Shugart
New Member
Were the disciples wrong when they told the Philippian jailer what he must do to be saved?:
"And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house" (Acts 16:31).
Jerry Shugart
New Member
Those words are contrasting "works" and "faith" which proves that Paul did not believe that "faith" is a "work."
If savedbymercy cannot understand this simple concept then I see little hope that he ever will.
savedbymercy
New Member
Christ's consequences greater than Adam's consequences
Now Paul after stating the consequences of Adam's offence, He switches to the consequences of Christ's obedience. He begins Rom 5:15
15But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
Christ's consequences are much more than that of Adam's, it communicates the Grace of God, and the Gift by Grace. What is this Gift by Grace ? It's Righteousness, lets look at Rom 5:17
17For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ)
Its a free gift by God's Grace of Righteousness upon all for whom Christ represented. The word righteousness is the greek word dikaiosynē and it means in this context:
in a broad sense: state of him who is as he ought to be, righteousness, the condition acceptable to God
They receive as a free gift a condition acceptable to God. They have Christ Righteousness laid to their Charge Rom 4:6
6Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
Back to Rom 5:15, this Grace of God and the Gift by Grace , which is by ONE MAN , Jesus Christ, notice " hath abounded to many"
Paul is saying that God's Grace and its benefits are effectually communicated unto the Many. In the greek the definite article is before the many, indicating a definite group, namely, The Church of which Christ was the Head of.
Lets look at this word abounded, it is the greek word perisseuō and means:
a thing which comes in abundance, or overflows unto one, something falls to the lot of one in large measure
to be abundantly furnished with, to have in abundance, abound in (a thing), to be in affluence
What Paul is saying is that all for whom Christ represented from the fall of Adam, are furnished with an abundance of Grace. This is alloted to them, on behalf of Christ.
Now this is True to all whom God viewed as in Christ[as they were in Adam] they were in Union with Him when He rendered His obedience unto death [Phil 2:8] and because of His death, unto them that He represented, the Grace of God and the Free Gift [ Of Righteousness or Justification] hath abounded to them !
Now Paul after stating the consequences of Adam's offence, He switches to the consequences of Christ's obedience. He begins Rom 5:15
15But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
Christ's consequences are much more than that of Adam's, it communicates the Grace of God, and the Gift by Grace. What is this Gift by Grace ? It's Righteousness, lets look at Rom 5:17
17For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ)
Its a free gift by God's Grace of Righteousness upon all for whom Christ represented. The word righteousness is the greek word dikaiosynē and it means in this context:
in a broad sense: state of him who is as he ought to be, righteousness, the condition acceptable to God
They receive as a free gift a condition acceptable to God. They have Christ Righteousness laid to their Charge Rom 4:6
6Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
Back to Rom 5:15, this Grace of God and the Gift by Grace , which is by ONE MAN , Jesus Christ, notice " hath abounded to many"
Paul is saying that God's Grace and its benefits are effectually communicated unto the Many. In the greek the definite article is before the many, indicating a definite group, namely, The Church of which Christ was the Head of.
Lets look at this word abounded, it is the greek word perisseuō and means:
a thing which comes in abundance, or overflows unto one, something falls to the lot of one in large measure
to be abundantly furnished with, to have in abundance, abound in (a thing), to be in affluence
What Paul is saying is that all for whom Christ represented from the fall of Adam, are furnished with an abundance of Grace. This is alloted to them, on behalf of Christ.
Now this is True to all whom God viewed as in Christ[as they were in Adam] they were in Union with Him when He rendered His obedience unto death [Phil 2:8] and because of His death, unto them that He represented, the Grace of God and the Free Gift [ Of Righteousness or Justification] hath abounded to them !
savedbymercy
New Member
Rom 5:15-16
15But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
16And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
These verses, along with others in this blessed passage, Paul contrasts the effects of the deed of Adam and that of Jesus Christ [The Last Adam]. Paul is also declaring their positions in the purpose of God as Covenant heads of people that they represented. Paul also in this passage teaches the origin of sin into the world Rom 5:12. Now Adam as Covenant Head of men, by his sin, they are made sinners, being born into the world with a sin nature, and by nature estranged from God. However Paul by contrast Illumines us to the free gift of God's grace, and how that it abounds to many that Christ as Covenant Head represented in doing His deed or work !
Now I am going to show you something in vs 15 here :
15But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
I am going to show you about the Gift by God's Grace, for the false teachers, the work mongrel's, they teach that the Gift of God is an offer, , this lie finds no support from scripture. A Gift is never offered to someone in scripture for their acceptance or rejection, but a Gift is always given, Period. Grace is always said to be given ! Lets look at scripture !
Rom 12:3,6
For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
6 Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith;
Rom 15:15
Nevertheless, brethren, I have written the more boldly unto you in some sort, as putting you in mind, because of the grace that is given to me of God,
God does not come to us or Paul and ask, hey I have some grace to offer you, you want it ?
Just in case you think that Grace is only given to the Apostle, this proves that theory wrong, 1 Cor 1:4
I thank my God always on your behalf, for the grace of God which is given you by Jesus Christ;
It was given, not offered or made available but given to them by Jesus Christ. That is exactly what Rom 5:15 here is speaking of Rom 5:15
the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
Gal 2:9
And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.
Eph 3:7
Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.
The word gift here is the same exact word gift in Rom 5:15 and both talking about Grace ! Its the greek word dorea !
So the Grace of God, and the Gift by Grace hath abounded to many, as many as Christ their Covenant head did represent, the Grace of God abounds to them. When something abounds, it is God's Power doing the abounding as it is indicated here 2 Cor 9:8
8And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work:
You see that ? Grace abounds by God's ability, that word ability is the greek word dynatos:
able, powerful, mighty, strong
a) mighty in wealth and influence
b) strong in soul
1) to bear calamities and trials with fortitude and patience
2) strong in Christian virtue
2) to be able (to do something)
a) mighty, excelling in something
b) having power for something
So, This so called gift being offered is a lie
15But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
16And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
These verses, along with others in this blessed passage, Paul contrasts the effects of the deed of Adam and that of Jesus Christ [The Last Adam]. Paul is also declaring their positions in the purpose of God as Covenant heads of people that they represented. Paul also in this passage teaches the origin of sin into the world Rom 5:12. Now Adam as Covenant Head of men, by his sin, they are made sinners, being born into the world with a sin nature, and by nature estranged from God. However Paul by contrast Illumines us to the free gift of God's grace, and how that it abounds to many that Christ as Covenant Head represented in doing His deed or work !
Now I am going to show you something in vs 15 here :
15But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
I am going to show you about the Gift by God's Grace, for the false teachers, the work mongrel's, they teach that the Gift of God is an offer, , this lie finds no support from scripture. A Gift is never offered to someone in scripture for their acceptance or rejection, but a Gift is always given, Period. Grace is always said to be given ! Lets look at scripture !
Rom 12:3,6
For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
6 Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith;
Rom 15:15
Nevertheless, brethren, I have written the more boldly unto you in some sort, as putting you in mind, because of the grace that is given to me of God,
God does not come to us or Paul and ask, hey I have some grace to offer you, you want it ?
Just in case you think that Grace is only given to the Apostle, this proves that theory wrong, 1 Cor 1:4
I thank my God always on your behalf, for the grace of God which is given you by Jesus Christ;
It was given, not offered or made available but given to them by Jesus Christ. That is exactly what Rom 5:15 here is speaking of Rom 5:15
the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
Gal 2:9
And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.
Eph 3:7
Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.
The word gift here is the same exact word gift in Rom 5:15 and both talking about Grace ! Its the greek word dorea !
So the Grace of God, and the Gift by Grace hath abounded to many, as many as Christ their Covenant head did represent, the Grace of God abounds to them. When something abounds, it is God's Power doing the abounding as it is indicated here 2 Cor 9:8
8And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work:
You see that ? Grace abounds by God's ability, that word ability is the greek word dynatos:
able, powerful, mighty, strong
a) mighty in wealth and influence
b) strong in soul
1) to bear calamities and trials with fortitude and patience
2) strong in Christian virtue
2) to be able (to do something)
a) mighty, excelling in something
b) having power for something
So, This so called gift being offered is a lie
savedbymercy
New Member
Grace has abounded to many !
Rom 5:15
15But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
The Grace of God, and the Gift by Grace, hath [by the power and ability of God] abounded to many or it will abound unto many. What many ? The Many that Christ gave His Life for ! Matt 20:28
Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.
The as Many as the Father hath given Him Jn 17:2
As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
Eternal Life is part of that Gift by Grace which abounds to many of Rom 5:15
Eternal Life is a Gift of God through Jesus Christ Rom 6:23
23For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
This is not a offer of a Gift of Eternal Life as the False Teachers would have it, but its a Free Gracious Gift that abounds to the Many for whom Christ died, so it is through Jesus Christ. Eternal Life is also by God's grace. Peter states to the saved Husband and Wife that they have partaken of the Grace of Life 1 Pet 3:7
Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.
Titus 3:7
That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
" The Grace of Life" Because it's the Free Gift of God's Grace that has abounded to them through Jesus Christ their Lord and Saviour.
And having done so, that is, having abounded to them, if produces God's desired results, which is New Birth and Conversion. You see, just as Adam's deed resulted in a physical birth and a sin nature, Christ's deed results in a Spiritual Birth and a Holy Nature, which causes them to walk in the Newness of Life !
Rom 5:15
15But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
The Grace of God, and the Gift by Grace, hath [by the power and ability of God] abounded to many or it will abound unto many. What many ? The Many that Christ gave His Life for ! Matt 20:28
Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.
The as Many as the Father hath given Him Jn 17:2
As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
Eternal Life is part of that Gift by Grace which abounds to many of Rom 5:15
Eternal Life is a Gift of God through Jesus Christ Rom 6:23
23For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
This is not a offer of a Gift of Eternal Life as the False Teachers would have it, but its a Free Gracious Gift that abounds to the Many for whom Christ died, so it is through Jesus Christ. Eternal Life is also by God's grace. Peter states to the saved Husband and Wife that they have partaken of the Grace of Life 1 Pet 3:7
Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.
Titus 3:7
That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
" The Grace of Life" Because it's the Free Gift of God's Grace that has abounded to them through Jesus Christ their Lord and Saviour.
And having done so, that is, having abounded to them, if produces God's desired results, which is New Birth and Conversion. You see, just as Adam's deed resulted in a physical birth and a sin nature, Christ's deed results in a Spiritual Birth and a Holy Nature, which causes them to walk in the Newness of Life !
savedbymercy
New Member
Now vs 16
Rom 5:16
16And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
As stated previously, Paul is comparing headship, that of Adam Vs that of Jesus Christ, each head has a covenant responsibility to God ! Adam along with all those he represented broke the covenant, this is pointed out in Hos 6:7
7But they like men have transgressed the covenant: there have they dealt treacherously against me.
ESV But like Adam they transgressed the covenant; there they dealt faithlessly with me.
So Fallen Man is without faith towards God in their estranged estranged condition. Christ, the Last Adam, kept the Covenant with God, for He was Faithful in all His house Heb 3:1-2
1Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;
2Who was faithful to him that appointed him, as also Moses was faithful in all his house.
He kept the Covenant with God not for Himself , but for all whom He represented, just as Adam did !
Now each Head and their outcome in Covenant with God had consequences for themselves and for them they represented. Adam's was that " many be dead" vs 15 and Christ's was that, the Grace of God, and the Gift by Grace [Eternal life] hath abounded to many !
Now Paul continues the comparison in vs 16, What Christ did is not like what adam did, in fact it was much greater, for what adam did, by one act, resulted for all whom he represented, Judgment unto condemnation, so by God's Judgment all received condemnation, its not an offer or condemnation, it is not merely made available for them to accept or reject, but it was simply God's irrevocable Judgment that they receive it.
Rom 5:16
16And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
As stated previously, Paul is comparing headship, that of Adam Vs that of Jesus Christ, each head has a covenant responsibility to God ! Adam along with all those he represented broke the covenant, this is pointed out in Hos 6:7
7But they like men have transgressed the covenant: there have they dealt treacherously against me.
ESV But like Adam they transgressed the covenant; there they dealt faithlessly with me.
So Fallen Man is without faith towards God in their estranged estranged condition. Christ, the Last Adam, kept the Covenant with God, for He was Faithful in all His house Heb 3:1-2
1Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;
2Who was faithful to him that appointed him, as also Moses was faithful in all his house.
He kept the Covenant with God not for Himself , but for all whom He represented, just as Adam did !
Now each Head and their outcome in Covenant with God had consequences for themselves and for them they represented. Adam's was that " many be dead" vs 15 and Christ's was that, the Grace of God, and the Gift by Grace [Eternal life] hath abounded to many !
Now Paul continues the comparison in vs 16, What Christ did is not like what adam did, in fact it was much greater, for what adam did, by one act, resulted for all whom he represented, Judgment unto condemnation, so by God's Judgment all received condemnation, its not an offer or condemnation, it is not merely made available for them to accept or reject, but it was simply God's irrevocable Judgment that they receive it.