Roman 9 Easy Explanation Videos

[kyredneck]

Calvinists often gravitate to Romans 9 and interpret it as applying to individual salvation instead of addressing it as Paul addressed to his kinsmen 'ACCORDING TO THE FLESH"-corporate Israel......

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22 What if God, willing to show his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering vessels of wrath fitted unto destruction:
23 and that he might make known the riches of his glory upon vessels of mercy, which he afore prepared unto glory,
24 even us, whom he also called, not from the Jews only, but also from the Gentiles? Ro 9

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It IS pertaining to individual salvation, it pertains to 'us, whom he has called. from Jews AND Gentiles, the REAL Israel of God, the TRUE Jews:

29 For whom he foreknew, he also foreordained to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren:
30 and whom he foreordained, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. Ro 8

 

[saturneptune]

Before jumping on this guy's bandwagon, maybe it would be helpful to know that he believes in purgatory and has written books on it.

Go here

That does not surprise me one bit. The games people play. I watched this video, and this guy is in the Twilight Zone. Thanks for posting the link. From watching the video, that is the second reason not to watch the links the author of this thread posted.

 

[Van]

Rather than get sidetracked into attacking the Romans 9 viewpoint presented in the video by attacking some of the questionable views of the presenter, I want to discuss, if possible, the actual views presented.

1) Is Romans chapter 9 solely a story of Israel, or can we find application for our individual lives? I think we can find application for our individual lives.

2) Under the Old Covenant, whose head was Abraham, Isaac and Israel (Jacob), the children of the promise are the believing Jews. Under the New Covenant, whose head is Christ Jesus, the children of the promise are believers in Christ, whether Jew or Gentile.

3. Paul opens his Chapter 9 discourse by saying he has great sorrow in his heart for his kinsmen, fellow Israelites. Why? Because God’s election of Israel does not include all the descendents of Abraham unto salvation. The promise does not apply to the entire family tree, only to a subset of folks within the family tree. Paul desires that more of his kinsmen would be chosen and in fact is willing to offer his salvation in exchange for the salvation of his kinsmen.

4) God said to Moses, I will have mercy on who I have mercy and compassion on who I have compassion. So salvation is the gift of God, He grants salvation. I think everybody agrees with this, it is just in the manner of how God grants salvation that people go their separate ways.

5) Is the election of Jacob and Esau, before they had done anything good or bad, an unconditional election? No, the younger was chosen over the older so that the older would serve the younger. Were they chosen for salvation under the New Covenant, or chosen to fulfill God's purpose and plan concerning Israel? Were they chosen before creation or during their lifetime, while in the womb?

6) The Video point of Pharaoh being hardened for God's purpose of providing mercy as illustrating Israel being hardened for God's purpose of providing wider mercy, i.e. to the Gentiles, seems solid.

7) Out of one lump, vessels of wrath and vessels of mercy. How were we fitted or made ripe for destruction? I think this refers to the Fall, we are all under sin, and in need of mercy. How are we made, from the same lump, by nature children of wrath, into vessels of mercy? God puts us in Christ where we are spiritually born anew. How did He prepare beforehand? God chose His Redeemer, and corporately His redeemed, and formulated His plan of Redemption before creation.

 

[Van]

Bottom line, Calvin stumbled over the stumbling block just as the Jews did, and pursued righteousness (a relationship with God and His Christ) not by faith, but by election. We are saved by grace through faith and not by faithless unconditional election. God chooses us, while we are yet sinners (subsequent to our being conceived in iniquity) and baptizes us into the body of Christ based on God accepting our faith (if we believe in our hearts) so salvation is not by the man who wills, but by God's sovereign choice.